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Post by Tristesse on November 22nd 2013, 3:10 pm

“Story-Based RPG” vs The Status-Quo

If you don't feel like reading all my thoughts on this, but just wish to know and better understand the changes and the differences, then read highlighted parts.
 
In order to better approach the question of which system will work better, then I feel that it’s important to define the differences between the two. I feel like one of the main problems this topic has is that the problem isn’t define, and neither is the solution. We know that there’s a change in paradigm suggested, but what exactly is that paradigm and what’s the difference?
 
The statement in the first post of this topic is that of “We should become a less competitive, and more story based, Role Playing forum.”
 
*For clarification, this sentence does not at all suggest a change in system, but suggests a change in the actual role-play interaction between players. This sentence alone means that we shouldn’t come to these forums to just fight. However, when combined with further statements down and collected information down the rest of the topic, it becomes clear that the biggest changes would be the rejection of an approval system. There would be a power cap, but you would be able to set your power for your character. Characters themselves would never go to approval, nor would spells, armor, weapons, summons, etc. Instead of approving these things, staff would be in charge of dealing with the subsequent conflicts (e.g. is something overpowered? Is something unfair? Is someone autohitting or godmodding?) Part of the power cap would be forbidding certain things. This also means that the member base would be in charge of moderating their own roleplays.
 


So, to surmise this:
 
Story based roleplaying:
-No more approval process
-Player moderated roleplaying and events
-Power cap and general rules, but otherwise, a more creative basis. Rejects a power curve (strength based on post count).
 
As the current system stands:
-Approval process for just about everything, character, magic, weapons, armor, even down to gummi ships.
-Roleplaying is still mostly player moderated, however when there’s an issue, guns are still called in, and plot is often times conceived and created by moderators and administrators.
-Power curve as opposed to power cap: your character grows by post amount, not by actual story progression.


 
So now that these are defined, the biggest differences are the design of the character by the system. Note that the paradigm for the users hasn’t changed and isn’t going to change. People that want to fight and play competitively are still more than welcome. People that want their characters to grow in a story format still can. The biggest difference is that there’s no demand of a post count and your character grows as you would like them to.
 
Now, the issue of bullies. Myself included, there’s always going to be someone raining or someone else’s parade. Fact of the matter is, it’s something relatively unavoidable when you are introduced to a social environment such as this. The new paradigm and the old paradigm allow for bullying. This will change *nothing* about any bullies, except that if you chose since the point of character design and conception that your character is end-game in strength and perfectly capable of holding their own and being able to take on a bully.
 


Now, the cons of this story based RPG:
 
Is there really a need for complete overhaul? The approval system fosters a competitive environment, but only because the competitive environment requires more specific moderation than that of the a story environment, just based upon the fact that these things are what can even be considered to overpower. (Your character is too tall! How overpowered! Your character is a nobody with a heart! Overpowered!)
 
No approval system means that overpowered abilities can and will happen. Because of the rejection of the approval system, one would find themselves dealing with problems after they’ve already happened as opposed to taking extreme preventative measures.
 
Bestowing so much power, though creatively liberating, could be a challenge for some users. Now, for first time RPers, this isn’t necessarily what will happen, but imagine the character palette you have: power by decision, skills, strength, story, etc. This can lead to a sort of drunkenness (I want the best character ever!). I cannot place enough emphasis on the fact that this is a possibility, not a definite action, but there will need to be insight in users, and their (hopeful) decision to make their character wisely. It doesn’t work in a storyline continuum for you to decide that your character is incredibly powerful because you want that endgame feeling, then drop off to lower strength because you want to have character growth.
 
This doesn’t address the issue of environment or the issue of player bullying. Fact is, this site has had its dark past and you aren’t going to be able to guarantee that leaving unless you ban those players, and if that’s how those players want to play, it’s unfair for them to be unable to. There’s no pleasing everyone except for people to be cautious. Death is a real and valid threat for many characters, even for those that are expert in roleplaying and combat situations. Best ALWAYS use caution, or your character will learn too quickly. The answer people won’t want to play with those people if it keeps happening means nothing to the user that leaves a topic open because they want their character to grow with others, but doesn’t want to die. Let’s be honest, the combat orientation of this forum is there because the games are combat oriented. You are fighting for 98% of games while cut scenes take up 2% of games.
 
The pros?:
 
Creative liberation. For some of those out there, including myself, the creative aspect of this world is empowering. You want to be able to create an endgame character? Go for it. Want to create a weak character? Have at it. The only benefits for the lack of an approval process are that you are no longer confined to limitations in place by the staff. You want to be able to use moon as an element for skills? Go for it. You want to be able to summon a keyblade? Go for it. There would still be limitations, I imagine (probably still no guns, you probably won’t have multiple keyblades save for multiple hearts, etc.)
 
The argument stands that worlds would matter more, and world leaders would matter more because they’d have armies, etc. It’s my understanding that this hasn’t changed in my absence, and even if it has, this wouldn’t be resolved by the paradigm change as opposed to just resolved at the same time as the shift. World leaders should matter. World leaders have an obligation and a responsibility to their worlds, and they can declare and establish laws for those worlds. This would require a slight amount of moderation, but the fact is, that this wouldn’t change because of the paradigm shift.
 
The plots would be more user oriented. This is how it was when I was here, mostly because there were bullies, and people to stand up to them. You want activity on the site? Stir the pot. Crank up the “character drive” dial in your RPs. Everybody being a moderate conservative in playing style isn’t going to get the site anywhere, and stories are going to get boring. This doesn’t imply that you can just do what you want because that would also create cognitive dissonance, a difference between what your character stands for and what you’re doing. OoC, I have beef with the people that lost Wonderland, and the attackers. That doesn’t mean that my character suddenly knows who they are and assassinates them. They would need sufficient information and reason to attack someone. That, also, doesn’t mean that my characters will attack Yima Qwin, for example, just because we want to start some site drama, even if the both of us have OoC agreements that there’s no hard feelings.
 
Not much would really change except for the rejection of the approval system. Even changing this isn’t going to get rid of the competitive or even dangerous, dreary environment that the site has been experiencing, except for allowing empowerment for those that are currently weaker than they would like to be. Bullies would be less able to ruin your time based upon the fact that they’d have to bother to write up a character template before they could.
 


I myself wondered at whether or not that user base would be able to handle it, which I apologize for because that seems unfair and elitist of me. The fact is, one has to have insight and genuine creative process for the beginning of their journey, and from there, when they RP, they need to completely feel (not a typo) the shoes of their character they are writing about. I couldn’t write up a fair maiden template who has no interest in fighting and then make a spar topic with Ansem. That’s cognitive dissonance if I’ve ever seen it.




That said, I’m +1 for the change. It’s not going to really do anything for me or against me, but it is more liberating for characters that should be stronger in their author’s eyes, or wish to grow. I come here and I know others come here for their artistic outlet, especially when dealing with times of hardship. So what, you rewrite your character? Quit your whining and just write something up. You wanna play? Then you’ll make the sacrifice to write a template on your character. You can recreate, redefine – why would that be a reason to not make the change other than your lack of wanting to do the work? Your character has no obligation to change. I feel like I can handle my bullies. I feel like, especially soon, I could do some pot-stirring.
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Post by Etzolix on November 23rd 2013, 8:18 pm

Finally, something more in depth with the flaws of the actual systems.

I believe that when a decision is made there should be a synopsis on the reasons why and why whichever system is chosen outweighs the others just so everyone understands the logic behind whatever decision.

This also makes it more concise for those not wanting to read the entire topic.

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Post by Occam on November 23rd 2013, 8:26 pm

I am for the story-based system.

I don't need some speech regurgitating the ideas of it, because supporters have already given enough for me to agree, and I believe that this would be healthy. I've been enjoying my topic with Tristesse and I haven't had a fight. It was the simple desire to focus on the story of my character and the story of his interactions.

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Post by Tristesse on November 23rd 2013, 9:01 pm

Etzolix wrote:Finally, something more in depth with the flaws of the actual systems.

I believe that when a decision is made there should be a synopsis on the reasons why and why whichever system is chosen outweighs the others just so everyone understands the logic behind whatever decision.

This also makes it more concise for those not wanting to read the entire topic.
I've heard enough confusion on this that I got sick of it and am simply tired of the back and forth, and sometimes disorganized discussions. I tried to make it smaller, but I feel that there are a ton of important points both for and against and it was important to highlight at least the origin of most points.

Zeikke Ekkiez wrote:I am for the story-based system.

I don't need some speech regurgitating the ideas of it, because supporters have already given enough for me to agree, and I believe that this would be healthy. I've been enjoying my topic with Tristesse and I haven't had a fight. It was the simple desire to focus on the story of my character and the story of his interactions.
I agree. My only issue and the biggest reason I have against, though overall I am for, is that there isn't a need for overhaul in  order to resolve the things like bullying. This isn't a panacea, but it will be good for creative outlet. I have ultimately enjoyed our topic as well, which is why I'm excited to see what comes of this.

Overall, maybe I'm being selfish, but I'd like to see some more arguments, if there are any that I've missed, that stray from what I've posted.
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Post by Jet Enduro on November 23rd 2013, 10:40 pm

I am still confused people say this is better for creativity

What is stopping you now?
The approval system?
The fact people might want to spar you?

Really nothing is stopping you. If the staff tells you "No we don't like the fact you are trying to have fun." you tell them to suck massive donkey dick.

If you want to go off and make a character that has no fighting skill and only talks and has a social time because it would be fun for you...then what is stopping you? You can say "I am a non combat based character so my stats are going to be as such. Pretty much all average."

Hell you can even go off and say "I dont use magic so I am going to ignore the whole post count milestones for getting combat based stuff."

What is stopping you all from doing that now?
Its not the current system because obviously there have been those who never fight at all.
The option has always been there to have a character where you just sit there and talk. I mean hell ALL of the winnie the pooh characters are like that. The Princesses of heart are pretty much like that.
Chip and Dale
Minnie
Daisy
Zero
Sally

The list goes on and on and on and on and on

Hell you can be just a random little kid who sits around talking to these super human people running around.

NOTHING IS STOPPING YOU.

Not ONCE has anyone said "You have to fight."

it has ALL been on you guys. All of it...If you aren't having fun find out why you aren't and solve it.

If you don't feel like you should get random bits of cloth that only changes what you look like approved. then tell the staff that or hell maybe just maybe don't worry about getting it approved.

I mean hell my character drinks a ton of booze and eats peaches for days...have i gotten any of those things approved? No why the hell should I? They dont do anything besides add fluff to the story and my character...

The issue you all are having is the current system is too competitive your solution "remove all competitive aspects" but then you are just making another problem for those who do want to have PVP. You can still have story based character...its easy...
Make a topic
talk to people
have fun
the end.

MAN that was seriously difficult to do I just spent days trying to figure out how to do that.


But wait Jet you asshole what if someone shows up in the topic who my character doesn't like and he tries to fight me but I don't want to.

Simple....TELL HIM TO SOD OFF.

In character wise... WALK AWAY or maybe JUST MAYBE use a story idea to prevent a combat situation..GASP HOMAHGAWD JESUS LAWDY I DUN COME UP WITH THE GREATESTEST OF IDERS.

I sound like an ass I know I am here to get my point across that uprooting a system because you guys cant figure out that the system you want...is engraved in to the current one already.

No approvals? Well if you dont want to fight..then you only need to worry about your character and partners

Don't want to fight? Well then don't make a character based around combat.

Someone tries to fight you? Well if you are story based I am sure you have a few friends who will show up to help while you run away.

One of your friends gets killed? Well again if you are story based you can go through a huge depression and have your character work its way out of that.

Was that difficult to sort out?

Seriously guys....this site is for fun...why are you all going super try hard mode and making this work instead of something entertaining. Seriously take it easy with the super serious bullshit all the time guys. The site is based off of a game where the main character is friends with talking animals and has the I.Q. of Train.

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Post by Tristesse on November 23rd 2013, 10:50 pm

Jet, the real only perk for creativity from this newer "story-based" system would be that you can decide where your character's strength is and you're not limited to what the site allows.

You're also assuming that this story-based system is going to destroy the PvP aspect of this. I think this whole thing is just named incorrectly. Really, the only thing that this suggests is the rejection of an approval system. There's nothing more than that.
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Post by Jet Enduro on November 23rd 2013, 11:00 pm

Who decided where my character strength was going to end as is?

Last time I checked the staff would say "You should be here" but I ignored that idea my character is above the curve just like others. the only curve people see here is the end to their own imagination.

So what they put up a general "where you should be" post count but thats just because only ONE person has an idea of where your character should be. YOU. Again you guys say you want to remove approvals and have user based plot...Then staff for one week let everyone have whatever moves and items they want for a whole week

As for the user based plot. Let them make their own plot team. Let them vote for their next plot ideas have users submit ideas to a plot forum and let them all make up their own ideas of what the site does next.

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Post by Lynette Elise on November 23rd 2013, 11:49 pm

Jet... so you're openly admitting to overpowering your character and godmodding by virtue of it? Because that's what "ignoring the curve" essentially equates to.

Just sayin.

And it's hell to maintain activity without being combative here. Trust me. Just because it CAN be done with a lot of effort and headache doesn't mean that we have the ability to welcome players who prefer that method of playing.

After all, I'm only NOW at 100 posts after how many years? Granted, part of that is my own real life issues, but that's not all of it.

But I think I've about reached the end of my useful contributions to this thread. Y'all know where I stand and why. I'm looking forward to the change.

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Post by Occam on November 24th 2013, 12:02 am

I would have to agree with Lynette.


It seems as if combat is really big here after reading through many topics. A lot of which lack much story compared to the actual combat. I think the purpose is to focus on the story rather than the combat. The system as it stands seems to rely on combat.

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Post by Etzolix on November 24th 2013, 12:18 am

The end of the curve is the end of your character's base strength. All the limits are inherently built in and you cannot surpass them unless using plot powers, that other members would have to agree to.

We don't tell members where they're at, however, they are limited to the growth established on the site.

Removing competitive aspects isn't what we're trying to do. We're trying to remove tedious restrictions in order to have more freedom and, by extension, more fun.
I feel the freedom would bring a cleaner, and friendlier, competitive environment. I, personally, feel that it would just make the site more fun in general.

Personally, who wants to work 3 - 5 years to "finish" leveling up? Then, there are members like me who don't want to wait 3 - 5 years waiting for others to level up before people become more comfortable RPing with my character as he is. Even now, I butcher him because it isn't suitable for this environment.

If you could, could you describe exactly what you think this topic is proposing since we seem to be communicating at different wavelengths. If we can understand where we're coming from it might be easier to convey points.



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Post by Tristesse on November 24th 2013, 12:34 am

I guess the summary post didn't help but to add gas to the fire. :/
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Post by Etzolix on November 24th 2013, 12:35 am

It's not fire. I'm just confused as to what Biscuit's is trying to say. Your post synopsis is rather clear. Likely just a misinterpretation on my part.

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Post by Yukina Tarka on November 24th 2013, 3:44 am

This suggested system just makes a lot more sense than what is currently implemented. Honestly, there are hardly any (are there any?) sites that use a similar system to this current one that thrive, and for good reason. It's not fun to have to spend years of your life just to have any sort of significant impact. And the reason that people are on this site is for fun, not to work.

Roleplaying forums that already exist and use systems similar to the one being suggested are still extremely popular, and have a significantly higher active member base and level of activity than we do.

Why? Because they are more fun.

On a more 'story-based' roleplaying forum, the individual character matters from the beginning. The history of your character has actual significance, and you're free to grow however you like, and as quickly (or as slowly) as you would like. Furthermore, on sites like this based on a series, it means that people would be free to pick up canon characters and play them as they are supposed to be, rather than having to come up with some ridiculous reason as to why Xemnas now struggles taking down a shadow heartless.

The current system does not allow for this. We are inherently limited with the characters that we are allowed to create, and it's honestly crippling to creativity. If somebody wants to create a character that is a battle-hardened warrior, they should be allowed to without having to sacrifice the strength that is a part of the character. Likewise, if somebody wants to create a character who maybe doesn't have such an interest in fighting, they should have the flexibility to develop their character in other ways -- fighting shouldn't be (and doesn't have to be) everything.

The current system places power above everything. And maybe that was okay, for a while, but I think that by looking at the replies to this thread, and the general downward spiral that this place has been on for quite a while, we can see that something has to change. For example, if 'fighting' posts are the only ones that contribute to how strong your character is, then how is estimating how many each person has, into such a concrete and rigid power scale, an acceptable measure? It doesn't make sense.

I'm not going to pretend that I know what will happen if this change goes through. Maybe the user base of this site isn't ready for such a system, but I don't think that's fair for any of us to just decide. User moderated roleplaying forums have and do work, and honestly I do think it would work here, too. Creating a compelling story should be the goal of writers, which is really what we all are, isn't it?

So yeah, I'm clearly in favour of the change and hope that the opinions of everyone who has contributed to this discussion are taken into account before a decision is made, because everyone's opinion on this topic is valid and should be heard.
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Post by Tristesse on November 24th 2013, 3:51 am

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Post by Jet Enduro on November 24th 2013, 7:27 am

Pretty much what I am saying is the system you all want is already in here.

Everyone keeps saying the same thing
"We want more story."

Well then MAKE more story.

"We don't want as much fighting"

Then don't fight as much.

"We want to judge our own character strength"

Then do so. As stated the BASE they have is up and its again more of a guide then an actual ending.

Even with this story based idea is everyone going to be accepting of Gods and other random beings as such? Probably if its their character.

Let's say we got rid of that "limit" and we let my character have the max strength he can have...
That isn't a good idea for one and it would be boring as hell.

My character now has the ability to change everyone's fate and choose who gets to live and die. YAY for me.

Lets take Ansem for example. Well now hes a time traveling heartless who can take control over anyone he wants. YAY for him.

The thing is you guys have yet to realize is the whole "limitation" you guys keep talking about and how its hindering creativity is a wall you all have put up yourself. Yes there are clear caps but that's again how it is for most story based things, Specially with kingdom hearts, you know what this site is based off. That whole Heart is the true strength bonded by friendship happiness and cuddles. Where Darkness and Light are pretty much the only element more overpowered than time.

Is it fair that there is somewhat of a ending for your character? Yes because all stories need an ending or else you just have a boring run on story that will lose its meaning and feeling.

I have an ending for my character and I know what it is. Even with the fights and PVP my character still has a huge amount of growth. From the first time I started out my character was a true neutral character did things for the light wanted true balance and didn't want people around him to be hurt or die.

Now look at him.

Ansem started out as someone who wanted to submerge everything in darkness (we fought somewhat tie the first time but it was full of one liners and auto-hitting so its hard to gauge) to the leader of a peaceful group of people the Republic who wanted to make things peaceful again, BACK to the darkness spreading asshole he is.

Now even WITH all the PVP we still had a story.

For some odd reason I cannot remember why we got rid of the Plot team. But I feel like its something we should bring back because the staff seems to be busy with not making plot.

Obviously if we did have a plot team it they wouldn't have constant plot going on at all times. The users not on the plot team would have to make their own growth. You guys should not focus so much on what someone else is doing with their character growth but focus on yours more than often your characters will meet up with others expanding even more so on your own story.

Again as stated if you guys want story I honestly do not see the reason why you all want to have a uproot of the current system which supports story based RPs

for a Story heavy system that leaves open a huge slew of issues to me.

Creative liberation well again we can ask staff to enact new ideas to help out with characters and their ideas

Remove the cap? Sure but getting to the end would be stupidly difficult. You don't just skip to the end there is no story that way. Besides you all should be focusing on the journey not the destination.

I agree with you all that approvals have been....uhh annoying. With the huge amount of focus on what is fair and what is not fair. However at the same time I can see why it is there. It is to make sure characters who like mine are able to have fate changing powers.

Again that does not bug me all that much. Just because there is a PVP aspect no one wants a fight that is 100% one side.

The point I am trying to get across from what seems to be the biggest issues that everyone has pointed out is:


- No one likes the current approval system. Well they can work on it and fix it you just have to voice your opinions.

- Everyone wants more of a story to work with. Well you all can work on that. Get a plot team together, Gather up ideas what you can do in this KH universe.

- No one wants the character cap. Well again you can voice your ideas and again it shouldn't be easy for you all to hit the end game if it something huge like becoming a god or becoming a beacon of _Element Here_ for the universe. It should take time and work. The more time and work you put in to a story the better it is.

Remember some of the best stories are made with people who know their limits. Not everyone can be Goku Jesus though he is a bro.

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Post by Shirou on November 24th 2013, 10:22 am

Jet, you're spitting out a lot of points that have already been addressed and beaten to death.

We wouldn't be letting people do whatever they want. There would still be a power cap (which is basically defined by abilities that aren't allowed). People would just be able to choose where they stand, power-wise, within the power cap. And if somebody exceeds that cap, then just say so. Inform the staff. Take an active role in maintaining your topic's fairness and fun.

When we refer to it as story-based, it doesn't mean the site as whole has some unifying story. It means that each character's story takes precedence over power. Instead of progression of power being the center of everything, your character's story is.


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Post by Alexander on November 24th 2013, 11:30 am

You know what I look forward too about combat most in a system like this? There are no absolutes, and each time you fight them, their abilities can change fluidly and variably.

Let's say I unleash a fucking typhoon. Its just this big, bad-ass twister and holy shit people are being blown around and I'm laughing maniacally.

Then, a person steps up. They plow through the wind, determination fueling their step. They walk into the vortex, and I press the vortex into them, and its just this, "holy shit, what happens next" type of gripping excitement that comes out.

In situations like this, you can see fights become more than that. Its not a test of the characters alone, but a test of the writers, the passion, and the drive. You've got one character and writer saying, "Yes I can," while you have the other saying, "No you can't".

Ideally, something fantastic happens. A story is born, a rivalry, some epic clash is billed like its the pay-per-view event at WWE. All the dram-drama that happens from that it beautiful, the sheer force of in-character electricity.

Short of the few people who would throw a bitchfit at something pretty cool like that, it stops being a counter-productive measuring of dicks. Instead, we have people interweaving webs and creating these artful combat scenes that leave a lasting impression on not just the characters, but the people behind the characters.

Then you get the really fun situation where a character who 'sits in the back' and doesn't fight gets messed with by this guy who is just kind of a bully, and you can go so many ways with that. He could be some weak guy who gets his ass kicked, or he could be that bad ass that makes you reconsider your life choices. That absolutely thrills me, that the apparent underdog has the capacity to fight back. Maybe not even win, but to more than hold his own.


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Post by Jet Enduro on November 24th 2013, 1:36 pm

No one has yet to give a reason why people can't focus on their own stories.

If there is so much of a focus on the power progression instead of story what makes this other system any different? giving them everything? What does that for an actual story they have everything they need for their character.

Building up to getting all that is the real story and even then you don't have to focus on gaining power its just icing on the cake.

I still do not see a large issue with what we have now besides the Approvals and peoples attitude.

Those are the real issues here. Not the lack of story but the lack of people wanting to make a story.

The approvals are poop though that is something you lot should work on instead of trying to wrangle a new system.

The approval system now can work...it just needs to be fixed up and flushed out.

You all keep saying the same thing like a broken ass record and I keep having to repeat the same thing. You all say you want to focus on your stories and such. Then do that.

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Post by Tristesse on November 24th 2013, 3:18 pm

People have been focusing on their stories. I focused on my story before I got into any real combat, and I've had fun. There's nothing here that says that the story can't exist in the status quo.

The difficult thing is that your character can be fairly limited in ways that aren't warranted by the universe, but are rules here for an easier sense of moderation. Ice shouldn't be an element that requires you to have two others. There shouldn't have to be a dive to heart that simply shows your ability to drag something on for 3000 words, something NO creative writing professors that I know would recommend, ever.

Now, I acknowledge these things don't warrant a change in the entire system, but just those things. But the biggest thing that I see as a concern is the power progression. It shouldn't be post based. It shouldn't even be time based unless it went weeks at a time, because though crafting something over such a length is that much more gratifying, it means that fewer people will try, more will get bored and leave, and more won't even start in the first place.

Someone's ability to start wherever they want in the power curve and decide their own progression is key here. Even if someone didn't care for growth but wanted to see how well their character fought with endgame strength compared to others who are also endgame, and the strategies and plots that came thereafter, they are within their own right to play like that.

I don't think that total rejection of an approval system is key. I feel like there should be a character template section, and that's it. I think the rejection of an approval system altogether suggests that people can do what they will want, regardless of the rules to RPing, and that it will create problems that could have been prevented in RPs as opposed to in character creation.

Fact is, again, no, this won't fix everything it's intending to fix. You won't fix character environment and this won't fix the current lag in the approval system. But this innovation could help precipitate such  growth in our site. And, even better yet, even if the few think this is a bad idea and they are outnumbered by votes for it... guess what? The people want what the people want.


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Post by Etzolix on November 24th 2013, 4:27 pm

Character environment is something that needs to be fixed in whatever system we do. There are certain aspects that need to fixed in whatever system. I've just shown how things are more easily fixed in the other one.

The argument for the switch of systems isn't, OH, STORY IS THE ONLY THING WE WANT TO DO. It's, "This system too limiting."

And, I suppose, yes, we give them "everything." There are already ways I've thought of to bring incentive to activity and active roleplaying. As well as being a leader. You'd have incentive for other things and not, "Post as much as possible".

I don't understand why you think if we allow them to have power we're giving them "everything".
I didn't realize allowing everyone to have power was everything. Which, in itself, is part of the issue; the power on the pedestal mentality.

The system right now, as long as it is slotted, as long as it is post based, and as long as it promotes more work than it does fun, will never be satisfying enough. At least for me and I already have all the power I could get.

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Post by Jet Enduro on November 24th 2013, 7:29 pm

Then how about removing the post count idea keep everything we have currently and just remove post count. Then what?

Its the same issue as it is now. People will continue to want more and more. The only reason why the post count is such an issue is because everyone focuses on it like it is important. It really isn't if you guys keep feeling like there is a curve and such just remember I have like 3 spells and 2 weapons and I technically can make like 10 more spells and 3 more enchantments and a shit ton of other things. The post count sure get rid of it let them have all 13-15 spells and everything else like that let them fill out their character to the max and then never let them change it again.

THAT is limiting. The fact there are "unlocks" is because things can change ideas can grow and things happen. To me that is a bit better than having everything laid out set and filled it at once.

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Post by Occam on November 24th 2013, 7:34 pm

I feel like the whole unlock thing is sort of a milestone system.

What if we had one that was earned through hard work and NOT post count? Hard work as in significant points in a character. I know milestone systems that are limitless, but as one keeps earning milestones it becomes harder and harder, but still limitless. And each is earned through having significant roleplay or significant story or significant character interaction. Something that is productive and matters, and is purely focused on the IC, not the OOC resultant of an IC product.


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Post by Etzolix on November 24th 2013, 7:36 pm

In the new system would you progress when you feel your characters stuff would/should change. We wouldn't have limited slots, at all.

We'd likely design more general, all encompassing abilities, that we can't do here due to the specificity of it all.

For example:

Reptilian Physiology // Etzolix can use all abilities of any reptilian creature, mythical or otherwise.

Yes, that is extremely broad and extremely powerful, however, it's balanced enough due to not being anything world shattering. Obviously, people will abuse the system but those people, as explained, will be weeded out.

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