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Post by Etzolix on November 15th 2013, 1:15 am

We should become a less competitive, and more story based, Role Playing Forum.

I see older members disagreeing with this due to 'losing' power they worked for, however, most older members aren't here, nor relevant, other than a few times a month.
I believe it would be better to create and environment that focuses on the stories of the characters, not just grinding and leveling up.

What I am proposing is completely changing the site. Opposed to the current, convoluted, system, you would create your character sheets and then Role Play once they are created.

There would be no approval process for your character, weapons, or any of their abilities. There would be guidelines you would have to follow, a power level cap for competitive Role Plays (which can be broken for the sake of the story, essentially plot powers on a more important scale), and the forums would be member moderated.

The Staff wouldn't be in charge of approvals but of handling situations where someone is overpowering their character to the point where they cause issues with other members. There would be some forbidden abilities, and rules, established to make this less of an issue, however, conflict is unavoidable.
Member moderation would mean that you report when a user is ruining the fun for everyone by overpowering their character and etc. This is usually a last resort when they refuse to comply with the complaints of those within the topic.

If this general concept was not explained enough, please let me know and I'll explain further. I feel this would help the site be fun and not as stressful on the members of the site.

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Post by Lenneth on November 15th 2013, 2:02 am

Its an interesting idea, one that is hard to picture but possible from that other forum which seems to be working on its on there. Why not do both?

How bout we keep the system the system the way it is BUT it then only pertains to the competitive scene of people wish to clash in rankings and level or if they want to remain how things are going with the whole grind of  rp things.

And then a separate section for your new story only satiation where anything can fly for the sake of plot and everyone is on even ground for mostly anything?

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Post by Etzolix on November 15th 2013, 2:07 am

I feel the competitive scene detracts from the site at this point.

Competitive rules would be established, but if we'd only make a SECTION for this then it's a waste. That's just essentially a PLOT POWER SECTION WHERE YOUR STORY ONLY MATTERS HERE opposed to it being able to affect the site as a whole. The purpose is to focus on people's stories and not have people super self conscious about grinding for power and y'know...it'd promote fun.

Who has the time to spend years on a site to reach endgame when the site might not even be around that long? I think it'd be better to make an RP site based on collaborative story telling. To each their own. I feel making a section for it would be a cop out.

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Post by Jet Enduro on November 15th 2013, 2:10 am

why not have something like
[Story RPs here]
or
[Fighting here]

something like that. Just an idea.

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Post by Etzolix on November 15th 2013, 2:14 am

I dislike the system of the site as a whole. I don't believe there are any redeeming qualities to it.

I don't expect this to go through. I just wanted to spark conversation on it. Put the idea of telling stories out there more than just lolfight.

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Post by Lenneth on November 15th 2013, 2:22 am

I'm also saying why take the choice away from people who says what's fun comparative or what isn't? Even if some people don't always have the time there are others that do honestly we can't speak for everyone on how others might personally feel.

Rp is about personally choice on how you want to play and even if this site isn't as active with a dozen new members coming in all the time there isn't say people that do come on here that don't have their own fun.

I do feel yes adding a more casual and story driven areas (Even if there just in the tittle for the mechanics) would be beneficial just for the people that want to get their ideas out, play them as they want and role play like that and do almost anything while keeping themselves in check. Personally I think we already kinda do that system here as it, with like private or open topics that we inform and people just free roam their shit that happens on the fly without it having a bad impact on them in competitive scene. I had topic in destiny islands where i travelled to an under ground cave to battle a giant sea monster and a newer user had to help save me, it was really fun and personally i didn't count anything that happened there towards my over arcing plots but it could.

But for those that want to grind, to take the time at stuff and more so on equal ground clash with heavy set rules and stuff they deserve that right as well. I feel as though those that would a more fair rival between each other need's heavy sets of rules that we have already since its what it was made for. For story driven rivals it seems less impact fully honestly, conflect promotes growth and this is already as even as we can make the ground for those.

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Post by Etzolix on November 15th 2013, 2:42 am

nvm. lose lose situation. this site and user base wouldn't be able to handle the change.

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Post by Shirou on November 15th 2013, 1:22 pm

I don't think there is an adequate inbetween type of deal here, that would work for the best of both worlds, so to say. It's either keep this system as it is, or completely go to the other system.

If we switch to the other other system, not everybody will be happy, especially those who are really strong and spent some time on the site.

Some people like being stronger than other people. Some people like fighting.

However, I feel as though despite all these qualms, we should do it.

A role-playing site utmost importance should be the story and how it should be told. Having a competitive system restricts the ability to tell the story, even if you're at your strongest.

The combat system also isn't perfect, or anything close to perfect. It's always guesses. I think I'm stronger than you. I think I should have dodged that. I think that should have hit. Arguments arise. Who did what and was it valid.

Without having the worry of having to be strong, always keeping in mind the limitations, or the fear of death, you can completely focus on your story. You don't have to be threatened or put off when somebody barges in who is stronger than you and attempts to fuck you up because they feel like it and you can't do anything because you're weaker. Where RPing is completely fun rather than a chore sometimes.

I believe one of the main reasons why we lose activity is because the most important thing on this is site isn't the story, but it the combat. The first thing members consider is their strength. Their power. Can they beat you or not? Etc...

I think it's a burden to the site. I think it's why we don't have as much active members as we could. I think the site would be better off without the competitive system of it.

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Post by Jeremi on November 16th 2013, 1:37 am

Shirou wants this.

Etzolix wants this.

Let's be REAL. This is GOING to happen.


My opinion? A "story-based" system assumes that the userbase can play fairly.

...Personally? I do not believe the userbase has that ability. It's simple human nature; give us an inch. Go ahead, give us humans an inch. We'll take a mile. At least.

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Post by Shirou on November 16th 2013, 2:15 am

Just because two admins want this, doesn't mean that it's going to happen, nor should it mean that members should feel as though they should agree or not feel entitled to an opinion only because two admins agree. There have been plenty of site changes Etz and I have both supported, yet never came to be. The reason why these are posted as suggestions is to gauge how the members feel about it. Why make decisions that affect the members and site as a whole without the agreement of said members?

RPs wouldn't be completely unmoderated and how it is now is based on fairness. You're expected to fairly portray your character's strength. If you don't, then you'll be called out on it. In a story-based RP, you can choose to match your opponents strength, but godmodding would still be a no. Fights would still be moderated, and they wouldn't just become a giant godmod fest.

I also disagree with you and even if you were trying to make a point, I don't feel as though it would be called for to assume nobody on this site would RP fairly if given a sandbox reality. There is a free-form, story-based RP site that thrives, with hundreds of users logging in everyday and simply enjoying themselves. It is possible. Not to mention that if a user is notorious for being unfair, nobody will want to RP with him or her.

I'm also not saying that the userbase would flawlessly transition. I am sure there will be lack of activity and confusion, and maybe some people even leaving, but in the long run, I believe it will be good. Changes don't always initially seem to be helpful or universally agreeable. Changing sucks. It takes you out of your comfort zone and dives right into the unknown, where failure is as much possible as success. But seeing how active a site that uses that system could be, that is also as old as this site, makes me think and believe that we can accomplish that as well. Persevere against the hardships and get to the better conclusion.

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Post by Felonix on November 16th 2013, 4:07 am

Why can't we do both? Keep the approval system as it allows us to keep from overpowering our characters with random abilities that are only used in one topic while allowing us to upgrade as we go, but get rid of the "level system" that has you level up every few posts? Characters would be able to properly gauge their power based on what abilities and MP they already have? It gets confusing trying to remember "Well, I'm at 1200 posts so I'm as strong as *insert creature from game here* so that's how I need to RP." Let us freely fight and create stories, and maybe create a new category of topic (i.e. "Open" "Private" "Story Open" "Story Private") that lets people know what kind of topic they're getting into. Give it a month or so, see which is more popular, and go from there?

I'm not entirely opposed to the system, but I'm not sold on it either. A middle ground may be the best way to open up to the users.

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Post by Alexander on November 16th 2013, 4:32 pm

As a member of the other site Shirou mentions, I support a change like this. I have two stances: as a writer, and as a member. I'll address other posts above as I read them, but I'll have my say first.

Let me break down my reasons. Let me start with this god-awful approval system.

First, approvals have been and always will be opinions based. Whoever the moderator or administrator is determines what you get, how much you get it for, if they help you get it by making suggestions, if they're in a good mood or a bad mood, if they can post consistently and constantly, if they even get to your approval that day... I can ask Lenny how he feels about having his approvals take literally months.

Trying to make an ability on this site that has creative input is stupid. If a person comes up with a new idea? If it doesn't met the approval requirements too bad, even if its extremely situation-based. Then there are abilities that are extremely lethal and versatile that are very cheap and have no requirements for us at all with people deliberately able to circumvent percentage requirements with changing words. Do you know what the difference between a '2% increase' and 'slight increase' is? 5% could be a slight increase. In trying to get more you just update your vocabulary. Then it becomes subjective, and the source of more conflict, then more rules have to be added and more abilities have to be reviewed and more time has to pass.

Not to mention the limits inherent to the system. MP vs MP is archaic and not representative of magic skill. If I make this giant-ass, world ending comet of ultimate destruction and I am at the top of my magical game It should not be bale to be countered by some piddly no-name whose MP matches what I put in, regardless of the ability. Literally, the system has this glaring flaw in that Magic Spells don't consider skill and effort. This was the very problem with negation magic when that was a thing just about a year ago.

I don't mean to point fingers, but this is an excellent way to point it out. Many people had negation before, but Etzolix made it famous (or infamous, as it currently stands). It was a novel idea-- a way for warriors to have a fighting chance against mages, but it wound up making magic-based impossible to play as comfortably. When your spells, summons, drive forms, and enchantments could be shut down in an instant and render all your effort powerless? In the end, he could negate anything that cost up to 295 MP.

That's just the tip of the ice berg. Let me point at our combat system.

I realize that things have changed greatly since I first joined. It was only about a month after (I think) that Zexion (the Cloaked One) handed the site down to Etzolix and Shirou. We saw immense changes to the site almost immediately. We had a stat system once that unfairly placed stronger characters who had been here ages on par with weaker characters who had just joined. I did not really care about this-- my first time, it was all I ever knew.

When Shirou and Etzolix revamped the system, things suddenly became much more... confusing. For people like me who had created our characters for story, this strange shift in the balance of powers made life difficult for me. Alexander's main purpose, and indeed his only purpose, was to be a vehicle for my emotional issues and distill them into a pure story. He was as strong as anybody else, which is what I had relied on. No longer the case, my new alternative was fighting.

Simply put, this is a system that does not favor the roleplayer. It favors the competitor. My pacifistic characters who only wanted peace and were once capable of defending themselves no longer had the ability. If this sounds like I'm bitching about being weak, its because I am. Before you say that this argument is reliable, you'd first need to understand that a similar response would apply to those who are strong and want to keep their power.

The current system is based on fight posts. Characters are not encouraged to be anything other than fighters. Pacifistic characters find themselves needing to bend into a more violent role, or place themselves at risk in ways that don't make sense, which breaks the rule that should be most sacred: "Don't break character". Indeed, even Alexander being a violent psychopath means I'll have to break character to not kill weaker characters in order to preserve site activity-- an event that would be unneeded if I didn't threaten to end months of activity with a post that took me at most a few minutes to write.

This exposes the major flaw in our system: it takes years to become strong. Literally. Unless a person is prepared to dedicate a good, assuming they live 100 years, 3% of such to this site they will not become strong. At four posts a day, all of those posts combat related, you've only gained 1424 fight posts. Assuming that an average member gets in fights often enough to post 4 posts a day, they'll be here for over three years. With changes in life and thus activity, they'll be here much longer than that most likely.

Look at the fighting progression. There is no real way to even know, either. It relies on counting fight posts. I ask a person how many fight posts they have, and every single time I have they've estimated to me because nobody can be fucked to actually count them out. That's a major problem, and means that people are either overestimating themselves or even worse, underselling themselves.

Even worse is out terribly restrictive slot system. Yes, I get it, you have lots of slots. For what? A dedicated summoner is no better with it than a normal mage. A dedicated Spellcaster has as many magic spells as a warrior. What the fuck is this, pokemon? You run out of slots and you can't learn anymore tricks? No, in retrospect, pokemon allows for greater specialization within a team. Nothing on this site makes sense in a story telling standpoint. Its choking and restrictive, and congests everything to a standstill. Look at our active members. Most of them are the same people. We aren't pulling in much new blood, and the few drops that happen by don't bother staying. Why be weak and pitiful in a restrictive place when you can be stronger someplace else?

I discussed our magic above, now let me do so in detail. Our magic system is so ass-fucking backwards. Ignoring negation, ignoring the restrictive slot system, and ignoring the fact that passive traits like wings, tails, and arms can still even with negation removed be cancelled out like they don't matter what fucking Kingdom Hearts game have you played that has lacked Magic Regeneration of some kind? Not one game in that series has ever had a situation where regeneration of magic or using magic abilities was impossible.

I refer to MP Rage, MP Haste, and the new system of cool-downs in wide use. I refer to MP balls and summoning Bambi who actually expelled said balls for consumption by the player. I refer to the fact that magic immunities don't seem to exist here, when they are canonically confirmed. I refer to how Cure is a cheap effect, that Light can heal and even resurrect, and that elements on this site don't possess their normal counterbalances because somewhere along the line it was decided that MP overrules common god damned sense. Why the fuck does fire equal water? I don't fucking know, is he a bad ass fire wizard? No? Just some jack-ass with a sword?

This system doesn't even allow for character to obey canon. How the fuck are we even still a Kingdom Hearts site? We are every other site in the world but with Keyblades. No wonder so many members have left to World Destiny. Have you wondered where they went? Did you even look?

Switching to a story system eliminates all of that bullshit. No more over-complicated approval systems. No more under-powering the canon. No more restrictive slots. No more members overpowering themselves out of fear of death. No more stupid MP equals MP. Let the members decided what they want with a system that caters them.

The positives are immense. First, we get the canon straight. No more weakened characters that shouldn't be. Ansem doesn't have to be a little bitch; he just gets to cover worlds in darkness because its accepted that its what he does from the fucking get go. Sora actually gets to use all of his spells because he doesn't get to pick four at the start, he gets all of them as he canonly has.

That should be the first priority for a Roleplaying site based off of a video game-- preserving its canon. We have failed to do that. We're more than a fan fiction. We can't give Sora all of his elements, but nobody can know about Castle Oblivion's mechanism to change it because they don't canonly? Nobody can know what Keyblade armor is because its been canonly lost to time? Are we fucking stupid? We can not talk good shit about preserving canon when we DON'T. Switching systems alleviates this hypocrisy immediately. It removes templates and approvals, and by extension eases the staff's responsibilities to something more productive.

What productive object do I speak of? Designing an actual site plot. This basically reduces their responsibilities to resolving disputes and creating interesting story arcs. With less time they feel obligated to spend on site, they may not even need to design the story arcs. Give one member with an interesting character enough time and it will happen on its own. This means staff can focus on just roleplaying and moderating disputes, letting them develop their characters and resolve their plots in a dynamically changing setting.

Dynamic? Characters determine the canon. What they do, their interactions with the world? This entire Roleplay site, entitled Valucre, started with a small group of people and now literally hundreds of members are active everyday because of the freedom they have been given. Its been active since 2006. Its never stopped.

Now, let me address other arguments in order of their reading.

Lenny, if that were so simple then it would not need to be brought before members. The point is not to make a section. If staff wanted to make a section where your story mattered there and nowhere else, it would need to be the site that currently exists but with the areas duplicated and specifically stated to be "Story". The rules would need to be designed from the ground up even still, and basically would split the user base. Likely, the site would not survive long after, as the initially limited interaction would not provide proper amounts of interest. In essence, that would be what could kill the site.

In the end Lenny, characters are still bound to the rules in private topics. You see more creativity sure, but you also can see the limits of a system. Trapped in a private topic geared for combat, which is what we see mostly to prevent interruptions, fighting is at its most dangerous. Never will a person let their character do something more than they are supposed to do, simply out of habit. They don't want to get in trouble. Sure, you see them making creative requests such as, "hey, can we fight this NPC or can I do x with/to y" but beyond those requests, nothing happens. I can appreciate Lenny letting a weaker character save him. Playing weak does not mean you are, and if Lenny had suddenly undergone a radical personality change and went from lovable to jack ass could have murdered that character in no time flat and then fucked his corpse. That's the key difference-- limits are limits. Period. If I wanted a roleplay with Etzolix where he let me be as strong as him, it would not make sense that I couldn't fight a person on the same tier as him later. Its nonsense. Ridiculous. Flat-out stupid, honestly.

Jeremi, you've just ignored the staff aspect of moderation that Etzolix mentioned in his first post. Your rather disgusting assumption has no basis on anything solid in the past, that just because two members of staff agree on something means its going to happen. While that can help the matter be expedited and reach a speedier conclusion, at most it just enhances the chances of it being approved of, rather than guarantee the change.

Felonix, your idea matches Jet's idea, and have the same flaw as Lenny's Private Topic Theory. If a character is as strong as one character in one area, its absolutely fucking stupid that they would lose power outside of those topics for no actual reason. In fact, the constant inventing of and using a reason in conditions that alternate would eventually make no sense and just suck the consistency from things. It starts to become, "in this topic person A can power up because of this, but in a situation that is exactly the same person A is properly fucked because of a simple term in a topic title".

Competition doesn't have to go away. Even on Valucre its a much spouted thing. Its called T1, and its essentially roleplay chess. Its exactly what we do here, but it makes a lot more fucking sense.

As a writer, I enjoy freedom. Rules and challenges have helped me create Alexander. But now? All they do is hold him back. I hear administrators preach about 'rules of the universe' that has in game demonstrated that the only rules are gameplay limitations. Its a world far bigger than imagination that transcend the very logic we've imposed on it.

To that end, I propose the following options.

Option One: we change the site to a more story based system, and embrace the game from which we spawned. In doing this we are bound to attract more writers, more players, and pump some blood into a site that desperately needs new ideas. At the very least, we open the door. Doing this does not weaken older members, and if they choose may in fact empower them as they choose, either through immediate gained or planned character development.

Option Two: We stop pretending to be a Kingdom Hearts site. As we are now, every technical aspect of this site is a bizarre parody of a great franchise. If we don't want to play Kingdom Hearts, then we shouldn't pretend to.

Just my two cents. If it changes, I would be prompted to stay. As it stands now, I've decided to suspend my roleplaying here in favor of a more dynamic and flexible system. I found this topic on accident. Nothing I have posted here was planned. All of this was written on an impulse.

If I can see all of this in a moment, then how come you haven't managed to see it in the stay here? Or maybe you have, and have just stood quiet. I don't much favor that approach any more. The wall of text above will speak for that.

Have a nice damn day.

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Post by Azmot on November 16th 2013, 6:52 pm

+1 vote.
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Post by Jet Enduro on November 16th 2013, 7:39 pm

So far from what I have read/ seen it has been a large mix of "The approval system is shit"

Which to be honest...I agree with.

Instead of basing how the staff wants the characters to be why not try and figure out what the users what their characters to be, Look at what they are able to do AT the time of the approval.

I always thought it based off character development. The more developed they are the better off they are at certain things which is why lenny had some uber magic because he was based off magic and he was at the strength to do so.

Why Yima and Etzo could pull off things all at equal level even though they were technically "weaker" than others was because they had the jack skill where they were balanced out pretty much. Yima had super light and Healing spells because his character was based towards that he was able to dodge shit take a hit and deal some pain because his character was balanced out like that. Etz's was pretty much the same cept again more towards damaging people rather than healing them.

The current approval system is based off "What we think you should be at" instead of "What are you at." which opens up a larger can of worms


How do we tell where people actually are at.
Do we base it off their post count?
What their MP is at?
How well they are at RPing?

Hell why not a mix of all of them.

Post count to me is still pretty useless because you can have someone with like 5000 post and 90% of them be nothing then there can be someone with the same amount but 90% of it be hardcore nonstop fighting. Who is stronger? are they balanced? is it fair that one is stronger than the other or is it fair that both are equal?

Its better if the one who has done more and has more character development be the stronger one. if someone stacks all their dare I say "points" in to one or two things they are going to be stronger than someone who stacks fluff. "I Have 100000000 friends because all i do is talk." or "I have fought in 100000000 battles and have yet to lose my life"

Who is stronger? the battle hardened vet or the dude who can talk his way out or gather up a bunch of allies?

As for the story...The users literally have free reign on this. It is YOUR character YOU make the choices. If you have a canon you stick with that characters canon but remember we have had a Riku who got married to a heartless and became a blood thirsty beast. We have had a Zexion who our ranked and ruled over Xemnas. Why? How? Character development.

Character development drives this site. Not what the staff thinks you guys should be at or what someone else thinks should be at but what you are ACTUALLY at you control your own character YOU make them stronger YOU make them weaker you cannot complain if someone says "You have not done anything obviously you are weak." if you do nothing. If you have done stuff you have the ability to prove it.

The fighting system is a bit iffy though because it kinda is a shot in the dark but remember this is pretty much text based and those who out write others and those who know what their characters can pull off and what they cant pull off are in the lead. If you write someone in to a corner then yes you have the upper hand. If you get written in to a corner use what you know and use your own abilities to get your ass out of it. You know if you are overpowering your character because if you think about where you are at based off your characters development "could they actually do that."

Think about it as KH. The start of the game would sora be able to pull off his end game skills? No Level 1 isnt going to do shit. Even more so lets remove the ideas of Levels. Sora in the second game gained new skills after every boss kill So if remove all the ideas of gaining levels in the game wouldn't each boss technically be a point in character development that made him stronger? Its the same idea here we have NO level system. So how do we gauge strength? Character Development. What has your character achieved? Have they been the sole survivor of a huge battle? Do they have a strong heart to pull off random KH bullshit?

To sum it up
Approval system: Think more of characters rather than what the staff thinks.

Story: The characters drive the story (Keep away from shitty plots please we do not need more zombies instead go for something along the lines of archs and stuff something that effects things on a site wide level) Private topics are good way to boost character development in a controlled way so those should stay because it doesnt make a huge impact on the entire site story but the characters who DO make an impact on the entire site. Its why characters getting in to romantic situations work out better than characters who constantly run around with their thumb up their ass talking about stupid shit and staying alone. Even the lone dog character has 100 friends.

Gauging strength/Battle system: Again this is based somewhat on the Users remember you have control of things but so do the other people in a fight on an RPG even if you are higher level you can still get screwed by something you are not good in. a level 15 water pokemon can still take out a level 20 fire type. (if it has good water moves like fucking water gun or even bubble beam) Its not based on levels but situations and character strengths and weaknesses play on those learn the other characters and you gain to get stronger.


but thats my actual two cents if you guys want to do more story based things THEN DO MORE STORY BASED THINGS

if you guys wanna fight a ton THEN MAKE HUGE BATTLE ROYALS DONT WAIT FOR THE STAFF TO DO EVERYTHING FOR YOU.

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Post by Katerina on November 17th 2013, 1:54 am

Alright... A lot to read here so I've kind of skim read everyone's posts, please don't be offended if it's obvious I missed your points I just thought it would be good to chuck in another member's 2 cents.

Well, the approval system is what people have said, dependent on who you get approving for what you get.. It's pretty iffy at the moment but I think we could still keep it if we go story based. I'll explain this further,

Say you just start out and you are physically as strong as everyone else so fights become more strategic and what not.

The gain you get from being around for quite some time is you get more MP and spells, simple as that.

I just think this way things could be more fun and those who have stuck around for years wont have lost much. Personally I don't like the whole leveling up your stats by post but I do like the way the mp and what not works with how the longer you stay, the more you get.

Just throwing the idea out there, perhaps if we do choose to go completely story based this could be a slow starting point, I'm not sure.

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Post by Etzolix on November 17th 2013, 1:57 am

Sidenote: You wouldn't be forced to be the same power level as everyone else. There would, ideally, be a cap that would prevent people from just destroying everything instantly because they could but you could start off weaker than the cap.

I would hope that once everyone got their fill of being uberz strawng, they would create characters to go on a journey with. Characters that would take their time to grow and etc.

Idk.

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Post by Katerina on November 17th 2013, 5:12 pm

Either way I'm all for the story based system even if my idea isn't put to use or anything.

I enjoy making characters from scratch and having them progress but atm this site makes it pretty daunting with the restrictions and the millions of pointless fights I'd have to go through to be considered strong.

I think it's more fun having adventures and stories with your character rather than going through for years and years of training or fighting topics to be happy with "yay I'm actually strong now and can defend myself."

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Post by Lynette Elise on November 17th 2013, 6:56 pm

*sigh* Alright, lemme wade into this morass since, so far as I know, I'm one of the FEW, maybe the ONLY, ones to actually have a story that involves a progression in power.

My character is making a massive transition. She is going from THE weakest character on the site to arguably as strong as the strongest, but in a different way than this site is capable of handling. This actually caused *problems* for me because I envisioned her as WEAKER than the site would ALLOW given the competitive aspect.

So yeah, my character's story got screwed by the Site's approval requirements. I had to move up a major part of her transformation just to justify being the *minimum* strength. I lost the chance to actually SHOW that part of her story on site because I had to wrap it into the required revisions as part of the combat system.

Additionally, ALL of my character's development is story-based, NOT combat-based. She's not a combatant. ESPECIALLY at this point in her progression.

But my whole story stands at risk if ONE bully decides to take advantage of the fact that I'm actually building a story, not just an extended fight scene. And to be honest, I don't see how fight scenes are necessarily empowering outside a leveling process anyway.

And let's be bluntly honest, guys. What has been going on around here? Hasn't been storybuilding. Hasn't been activity building. It's been outright BULLYING. Stronger characters bullying weaker ones because they can. Whole worlds destroyed because no one was strong enough to defend them or because players were UNABLE to log on for real life issues. Characters taking limbs from weaker characters who have no recourse but to try to get approved *creations* to compensate.

There's a reason I've been largely hesitant and unable to do much. The least hint of bullying and I completely lose my ability to do *anything* creative. And it doesn't even have to be targeted at me.

Additionally, my character has plot powers that I really need to get posted, but I have hesitated because I know that the current system is going to *scream* in rejection. Not because they're overpowering, but because it's a limited form of absolute protection. But it's JUSTIFIED by her story.

The current system is actively inhibiting activity. Yes, it's a risk because I understand where Jeremi is coming from. His fears are born from having had to work with this broken system for so long that he doesn't know anything else. But let's be honest, even HIS character is unable to fully exemplify his own story-based strength because of the limitations.

I think that moving to this system would be worth the transition. I think that it would help. Yes, it can potentially be confusing and mind-boggling, but it is worth it. For all that people sometimes fail the trust given to them, they can never *grow* unless given the chance to shoulder that trust, and become strong enough to bear it.

Think of it this way. The current system is a tyranny. The Admins and the Mods have ultimate power over the players, the ability to tell them what they can be, what they can do, and how they can do it. It's safe. It's secure. You don't have to think, or be responsible for yourself because someone else is there to make all those decisions for you.

This new system is freedom. It's scary. It's NOT safe. You are responsible for yourself, for your own behavior. YOU shoulder all the responsibility and all the decision-making power. But you can do SO much more when you are free than when you are not.

So yeah... this is me opening my big mouth and sticking both feet in. In case anyone wondered why I tend to remain silent. Nothing good happens when I speak up.

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Post by Paleo Ansem on November 17th 2013, 7:17 pm

I'm sorry but after reading every single last one of these


Especially some of them I went and had felt a little throw up in my mouth, yuck


I thought this would be an awesome idea

I thought this would be a great idea

But holy shit congrats

Half of you rather then talking about this your basically bashing the living shit out of something

Shame. Shame.

Honestly whether this goes through or not I don't get it

then what

half of you won't have an excuse anymore

and the other half are going to put their characters as Jesusdalilama fucking Christ

And the rest will probably just stick to private topics anyways

Hell at this point the way this is sounding I got an idea

Let's make it so you can't hurt or kill character without that persons permission

Or fight them

Or even rp with them

Cause holy shit sensitive flowers yo

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Post by Alexander on November 17th 2013, 7:32 pm

Hey, ever heard of "Argumentum ad Absurdum"?

Taking something to the extreme to make it seem stupid and absurd only makes you seem childish. If that is literally your only grip with the proposed change, then you would have done as well to remain silent because you aren't going to be the only one to point out that a lot of the weaker characters are insecure about having zero effect on the site as a whole because in the end, the stronger overrule them. Its a fact. Its a truth. Its been demonstrated before.

Without any real basis, you have highhandedly decided what the distribution of power would be. Its false. Successful sites that have followed a similar paradigm have already proven you incorrect. People tend to not make god-tier characters. They make characters, period. They enjoy the creation of it, not the power because each character is as strong as it needs to be to carry out a story. If that means powering up to fight a foe survive and encounter, then they do. If death happens anyway, its never permanent. They live as the plot dictates.

By the final half of your post, it seems that you don't think that this will change anything. By the first few sentences, you don't see problems with it than the one things that you've decided to focus on. You've not addressed any other points, so I assume that's your only problem with it so far.

You may as well support the change.

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Post by St. Elmo on November 17th 2013, 8:45 pm

While I haven't sufficient time or desire to read the entire topic, after reading the initial post, I am in favor of shifting towards a more plot/story-friendly system.

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Post by Paleo Ansem on November 17th 2013, 9:08 pm

To be honest Alex I haven't been paying attention to this At all I simply have had multiple people ask me on Skype if I'm for this or not

It's only been demonstrated if someone gets annoyed no one randomly goes and does something without a reason behind unless there that much of a dick.

Most of the time the strong usually just stay in their castle or place and don't do much unless oh say random example you throw shit at their castle and most of the strong have been recently looking to help spar with or against younger members or take them under wing or put them in controlled environments inorder for them to get stronger but once more people have very different opinionated views on this

My highhanding was nothing more then three things I see happening

And whether or not when people make characters and their powers can go yes they'll make normal, however have an untapped source which many character I've seen this with and a lot like that formula

I'm not saying they will I'm saying I've seen this a lot

Nothing is permanent even now

Honestly to this whole thing I'm meh

Would it be a good idea to try out
Yea sure

Is it fun to watch some people rather then contribute complain

Certainly isn't

Then again I guess I'm being very hypocritical right now

If the change happens cool

If the change doesn't happen cool

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Post by Kasturi on November 18th 2013, 2:51 am

I am in agreement with the change.

As someone pointed out, the site system encourages competitive rp. This narrows down our site to cater only people who enjoys competitive rp, or those patient enough to go through it for the love of KH and their made rp characters.

By making the site more story-based, we expand to cater more people, specifically writers.

That is the MAIN idea. WE NEED MORE NEW MEMBERS THAT STAY AND DO STUFF.
For that we need the site to encourage and be enjoyable, to all members especially new ones.


On separate note:
-If anyone godmods we can just ignore his/her post. Seriously, whats so hard about it.
-People should be able to play any characters and abilities without approval, besides canons.
-Competitive rp should be kept for hostile takeover or competitive-type tournaments, with mods as judges and referees. Only approved skills/items is usable there. People who earned their high stats thus can keep their power.
-People can play competitive rp in normal topics, but not force people into it.
-What Alexander and Lynnette said have a lot of truth.
-I'm doing this for the sake of the site.



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Post by Tristesse on November 19th 2013, 11:43 pm

I think this is how things should operate, and with the exception of the approval process, it's how I run my boat anyways.
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Post by Yima on November 19th 2013, 11:55 pm

My opinions are well outline in this podcast: https://kingdomhearts.forumotion.net/t9785-kh-podcast-6-story

It is long but it will fill you in on all the major details that need mentioning thus far and if you would like to be a part of the next one then sign up.

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