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Not for the Faint of Heart Empty Not for the Faint of Heart

Post by Zihark on August 17th 2013, 2:19 am

Google Docs Link

Rundown
Zihark and Etzolix have banned together to bring you a plethora of suggestions that will hopefully make the world a better place. The rundown would be longer, but since I just lost the original post, you get this. Second best but still fantastic.

How it Works
In honor of one of the suggestions, we are going to use one of them.
Zihark wrote: Each user only gets one post per suggestions to convey their thoughts and ideas about the issue. This shortens the lengths of the topics and makes users stop and think about their post. This also increases the quality of the argument because no one would want to waste their post. There is no notification for editing your post, so if you do edit, it might be missed.
In addition, if you would like to add anything to the discussion, your OP must be edited with "EDIT:". If you post a second time, it will be deleted, by me, the exception being posts that don't apply to the actual suggestion. Hopefully this works out. If it doesn't, of course, this suggestion won't be implemented.

As stated in the quote, hopefully this will make the posts more concise and stay on topic. You don't have to comment on all of them, but if you feel strongly one way or the other, say so. Make your argument, and hash it out.


Last edited by Zihark on August 17th 2013, 2:27 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Etzolix on August 17th 2013, 2:21 am

Did you make the link public? If not you might want to just to ensure people can actually read everything.

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Post by Zihark on August 17th 2013, 2:24 am

It should be.

Try logging out of your Gmail and viewing it.

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Post by Etzolix on August 17th 2013, 2:25 am

Okay, yeah it's good.

If there are any issues viewing then please let us know.

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Post by Esgyrn on August 17th 2013, 2:46 am

So for the slotted weapons, I understand how people may make a lot of weapons, I myself have a set up but most of my weapons except for my most recent ones have a reason and a connection to Drakar's story. Since I can only really wield two regular weapon-sized I never saw a problem except for the keyblades. Keyblades to me personally are more symbolic, they are usually a representation of one's inner self and I even only made Keyblades as markers for Drakar's plot. Most of it may not be seen by other members but it puts a smile on my face to know there is something behind at least 80% of my weapons and armor. Armor....I would never personally summon armor so that leaves me with wearing a limited amount of armor so I don't see a need to slot those as long as summoning armor is banned.

Also for the realism vs. fantasy argument, unless I misunderstood. When making stuff OOC I feel the need to use specifics, leaving the fantasy to the IC. In my opinion, IC matters when it comes to fantasy, not so much OOC. Also, for Alliances, there is obvious needed OOC structure to accommodate IC. I do think for ALL alliances, we need more IN CHARACTER meetings and swapping of info but we still need out of character planning and such because that matters too. We need just as much in character as out of character, IC should dominate but we can't have just one.

EDIT:


So to elaborate on gear/armory, some things that hold sentimental value like keyblades could progress and transform. For example, my signature keyblades the Light and Dark Cycle were supposed to have a progressive change in structure (although I haven't gotten around to doing it actually) but another example is my Gateway keyblades. You might not understand what I am referencing, but the point is that is an example of things that change over time. For example, a rather disliked one probably, Ichigo's Bankai for those who know. It has changed four times in shape and power, but here power wouldn't change of the weapon itself just shape. This allows us to progressively alter our sentimental weapons to show progression and make that weapon significant. But there has to be progression.

Now I also liked to add since I am just now thinking of this part, I believe weapons that aren't as significant or as important like a longsword or a keyblade shouldn't require slots but shouldn't get anything special besides simplistic functionality. Now an alternative to slots would be how many weapons we can have/summon at one time.


Last edited by Esgyrn on August 17th 2013, 3:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by MorpheusZero on August 17th 2013, 3:08 am

This is wonderful.

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Post by Saix on August 17th 2013, 7:24 am

Idk if I necessarily like the idea of limiting each user to one post per topic when something is suggested. Sometimes I feel a heated debate it necessary and that usually entails at least a two pager or so.

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Post by Hikari on August 17th 2013, 9:05 am

What Saix said.

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Post by Etzolix on August 17th 2013, 9:09 am

There's more than just that if either of you would like to comment about it. There is a link to a list of issues than are potentially being discussed at the top of Zihark's post.


=======
Edit
=======

Magic Regeneration was a bandaid on a broken arm if things didn't get fantasy based/stay too technical.

The staff account thing is...whatever. I, personally, don't care about it.

Slotted weapons, since the original writing, has been upgraded to the Crafting stat idea which might need a topic of its own unless people prefer to have it in this topic? It also includes the merging of the agility and the speed stat. If people want more elaboration on that here then I'll give it. If not, it can be saved for after al this is done.


Last edited by Etzolix on August 17th 2013, 4:29 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Hikari on August 17th 2013, 10:02 am

Ah I see.

Reality vs. Fantasy: I suppose this makes sense however we still need realistic boundaries. I don't see any problem with delving further away from logic though, after all this site is a work of fiction.

Combat Portal Removal: Combat portaling should be allowed as I simply can't see a reason for it. As for dodging... If people want to waste 50 MP on dodging an attack let them. Now, if combat portaling was free I could see a problem. But people have to use combat portals wisely and it only makes sense to keep this allowed. Also even if combat portaling is cast aside we still shouldn't make non-combat based portals cost users MP, if this is what Zi is implying. That's just stupid and would make portaling a worthless concept. It'd be better to walk than to portal if we do that.

Element List Shrinkage: We shouldn't remove moon, it was just added. That's like giving a puppy a treat but just as its about to eat the treat you kick the dog in the face and hurl the treat in an incinerator. Also I'm with Etzolix, molten should be removed as earth and fire would have basically the same effect. As for the other elements removed... I do not have an opinion on those. Also rose/flower should indeed be a part of earth Zi.

MP Reduction/Regeneration: What's wrong with battles and topics being longer? Besides, MP regeneration is already implemented if the users want to use it. So if you want to use magic regeneration just ask the people in the topic and if they say yes have it regenerate slowly over time rather than make it a full time thing.

Slotted Magical Weapon/Armor/Item System: How is this being abused again? Also this seems annoying for keybladers, as all keyblades can be summoned. So in other words while other people are able to still make swords via having no magical abilities for them keybladers who don't want to wield regular weapons have to wait five hundred posts again before they get to make another weapon. Not only this but it seems unneeded.

More Words: Fuck yes. Your points summarize my entire thoughts on this and I support it 100%.

Separate Accounts For Staff Duties: Eh... I abstain.

Forum Separation: Weapons, armor, and items aren't separated though... They already are in the same forum, just under a different name. As for Zi's, enchantments are in no way similar to weapons, armor, and items. How is seeing through walls or having a tail the same as a sword in any way, shape, or form?

Alliances: I'm all for this. The Coalition already has one so I can't see why others wouldn't have one.

Suggestion Process Update: Already spoke about it, still against it for the reasons Saix stated.

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Post by MorpheusZero on August 17th 2013, 10:46 am

So I've actually had time to digest all of this and will put in my two two cents on the topics discussed.

Realism & Fantasy: This site has become WAYYYYYY too overly technical The mods shouldn't be asking some of the questions in approvals that they are. Such as how high, how long, how much damage. I mean to a certain extent yes. But this is a fantasy site and it should go back to the way it once was. Where you know, we actually RPed ourselves about how we got hurt and how it happened. Way I see it, is if you put a description of what the spell does and a very general damage amount. NOT a number. Then it should be fine. This is a TEXT based site and we used to encourage creativity. Now we encourage being stupid....basically.

Combat Portalling I agree with Etzolix and Combat Portaling should not be allowed because of the nature of how combat works here. However, I strongly disagree with Zihark. If you are a mod, and someone is using a portal to meta-game, then its your fucking JOB to make sure it stops. Fucking Period. If we remove portals altogether or make it cost a bunch of MP, then we might as well remove Gummi Ships, Summons, any 'in-character vehicles' such as Pirate Ships, we should take out anyone who has a pet...the main point of just for aesthetics when used out of character. Ok yeah aesthetics doesn't matter much, maybe to you. But using a portal as an intro to a topic is just one way of many to enter a topic. Some people think its lazy. Well those are the people that don't have it at their disposal. If we are going back to the actual game here...how many of the antagonists in the actual game used portals to simply enter an area? I'd say damn near 100% of them ALL used portals to simply enter a place, and in our case, a topic. So it is completely justified by those standards.

Elemental List I almost agree with everything here. Just the Nothingness part being removed. Also...again, being a significant element used in the game by characters such as Xemnas, and the big Nobody Boss at the dive of heart at the beginning. If BALANCE is what we are looking for, then Nothingness is considered by at least me to be that sort of 'non-elemental' element to all the other elements. But I for sure agree that a lot of them can be dropped because I feel they are redundant to ones already on the list. Such as Water/Ice etc.

MP Regen Simply put. No. This is a horrible idea. I hate the idea of MP Regen. Which yeah I understand in most games you automatically regen MP and stuff, but hell, most games you automatically regen Health too. So are we going to implement that as well? Bad idea. Magic should be a precious commodity and when its done its done, now you have to be creative and figure out how to win without it.

New Weapon System etc I'm pretty much indifferent to this one. Being renamed to Armory is basically just a useless change, But overall, I don't care much about any of this.

Approval Stuff I already touched on this in the first one. This site is WAYYY too overly technical.

Staff Switch Accounts: Probably the most hated idea I've seen on this entire list. I am super mega against this thought. I was ALWAYS against having more than one account. To be honest, i still think its stupid that we made an ADMIN account to post approval and announcement threads. To me, when a new person signs up they want to be able to connect to someone on a personal level. When they see all the topics posted by ADMIN and STAFF1, now you have turned into an outsourced Indian Calling Center...nobody likes to be put on hold for those. I know this because I have more experience here than anyone in management. I run a 3 year old gaming community with over 250+ ACTIVE members. We even got a fucking bank account and get over $1000 a year in donations so we can buy our members cool shit and have raffles and game servers. I have put a stupid amount of time into my staff members and having clearly defined roles and each person knows their job and what needs to be done. Yima runs all over the place back and forth because he doesn't have anything like that set up here. I can go without being at my site for a day...or a month, and when I come back everything will have ran fucking SMOOTH. Everything falls into the next chain of command, most decisions are voted upon by the highest 3 people in the staff (so that the vote always has a majority) and more trivial matters are voted on by all staff members, which is about 13 of us. Majority rules. And anything that can't be decided on, then from time to time I have to make a decision and make everyone deal with it. The problem here is that Yima does that 100% of the time lol. Which again, nothing wrong with that for YOU. But ultimately it cripples the staff and sets a bad standard for them to ALWAYS run to you when a fucking ant bites their big toe. Want to know how many staff I've fired over the last 3 years that have been unable to do their jobs? About 10 different people over the last 3 years...and my staff currently holds about 13 positions. TWO of those people I fired were ADMINS. If you can't get it done without me holding your hand don't waste my time. Switching Staff accounts to standard STAFF accounts is a waste of time and won't change anything but make the site less and less personal, more overly technifying things further. Which I'm surprised Etzolix said this because against almost everything else he's said.

Forum Separation Again. Don't care really. Either way.

Alliances For the most part it would be cool. However STRICT regulation must be placed on ones with their own forums. As in you need to be established for like a month first, have so many members. We don't want every single member getting their own forum because they want an alliance.

Suggestions Stuff Okay THIS is officially the worst idea on this list now. So let me get this straight. LOL. We want to STOP overly technifying things...make it more fantasy....but then we want to heavily restrict user feedback by overly technifying a fucking SUGGESTIONS forum? When has anything great in this world ever been done without discussion?Sure maybe people get a little heated and an argue can start. But I gaurantee you when the Founding Fathers of the USA all met to discuss new government matters and how it should be done they all didn't get one say and thats it. This has got to be the stupidest thing I've ever heard of. Discussion breeds creativity and progress. Why do we have discussions in class at school? Because it helps you learn, solidify arguments in a statement, and clarify thoughts in an idea.

I also would like to add that moderators and admins should not be asking 10000 different questions in approvals. You get all your facts together LIKE I HAVE DONE IN THIS POST adn post them all at once. I didn't respond to each topic in a seperate post. So why do you?

So overall we can either take one step forward to steps backward. I grew up in this place, and most of the time I am an asshole to a lot of people. But its because I am passionate about this place and what goes on here. What did that one guy say? We've got to live together, or we'll die alone.

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Post by Jet Enduro on August 17th 2013, 4:40 pm

and then we go with Bisc's abridged form of opinions

the Realistic nonsense kinda needs to be cut back. Obviously due to the fact that this is indeed a fantasy based site we should be able to do above and beyond normal human specifications due to the fact of there being half humans and other such magical beast and magic and not real things. However that is not a free ticket to go "OH BOY I just joined I'm going to solo the final boss!" and expect to last longer than half a second.

By what I mean is the starting out people Yes you are weak as hell specially compared to people who have been here hella long and who have built up a TON of character development and survived everything stood up in the ashes took a piss then went mountain climbing the next day without using gear and only in you god damn skivvies. (last part was half true) there are obviously still going to be realistic ideas such as you loose a head you be dead and such. You cant bleed 500 pints of blood and be like "Yall worry bout nuttin" (you aren't morph) Keep it fun and fantasy kiddos

combat portals.....now this is a bit of a weird one obviously there where people in the game who were able to do so but those were boss people who were strong enough to. So I feel starting out No you cant but when you get to a certain point where you can cover the mana cost as well as it make sense with your character ...shoot go for it but its going to be heavily looked at and made sure not to be over powered.

Elements .... See Morph for more info
(excluding moon because fuck moon moon)

MP Regen.....Nope unless we go with the idea of 5MP every 20 combat post. then sure possibly maybe


Weapon system thing? Ehhh if its a name change whatever


the other ones im pretty indifferent to

suggestions could stay the same so what people get pissy theirs doesnt get loved instantly but whatever



a lot of these we pretty much went over with Yima already while he told stories about his cat shitting on everything and him locking it in a fireplace ( <3 Yima so hardcore)

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Post by Kenos on August 18th 2013, 2:57 am

Reality vs. Fantasy: I agree, I do feel as if the site is overly technical and too realistic. This is a fantasy site, based off of a fantasy video game. So many characters in the game (practically all of them) have inhuman abilities and powers. So why are we, including those non-human characters, scaled back to an average human being?

Combat Portal Removal:  I personally think there's no problem with having this, so long as a high enough cost is paid. As for what Zihark mentioned about entering and exiting a topic, a lot of people enter and exit randomly, with means other than portalling. The members here get creative xD  

Element List Shrinkage:  I do agree that some elements are redundant...However, Nothingness is not one of them. I may be biased as Nothingness is my primary element but, as mentioned previously, it is a significant and vital element in the game. The same could be said for Moon, although it (what I think) is a difficult element to work with.


MP Reduction/Regeneration: No comment.

Slotted Magical Weapon/Armor/Item System: I'm all for renaming the Weapons/Armor section 'Armory'. I agree to having slots for weapons with no-cost abilities. Geberal guidelines would help us understand what's acceptable. As for the summoning items...I've been in a fight, before the no-free-weapon-summoning rule, where my opponent just cycled through and  switched between his/her weapons. It was annoying, and I felt it was unfair. Perhaps there should be a limit to how many weapons one can use in a single topic. Oh, and I think we should ban weapon summoning in the middle of combat, Keyblades included. Not completely, just to the point where members can't do something such as throw their weapon and then bring it back immediately, or suddenly summon their weapon into a position that's unfairly advantageous for you. Summoning to retrieve a weapon that has been knocked away is perfectly fine, in my humble opinion.

More Words: Yes. Ditto. You are correct. I agree. Si. Jawohl. Da. Hai.

Separate Accounts For Staff Duties: I do think it's unfair that staff members get a boost in post count for things such as approvals. 

Forum Separation:  I agree with Etz. Summons and Enchantments should be separate. Personally, I usually explicitly state whether the creation is a Summon or Enchantment in the title, and wish that other members would do the same. It's a bit confusing at times, especially when I want to look at other summons or enchantments for ideas.

Alliances: See 'More Words' above.

Suggestion Process Update: No. I agree with Saix and, personally, I believe this proposed system would prevent members from clarifying something they've stated  or responding/counterracting what someone else has said. Yes, occasionally things do get heated and/or off topic, but this is something that can be moderated.  As for suggestion number one, I believe a system like this would just take too long for anything to get done. Not to mention, confusing.

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