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Post by Jet Enduro on August 29th 2012, 4:26 pm

At the end of the day its "They aren't going to give mages extra crap just because a few of you magic types decided to not have any strength to back it up"

My thing with MP recovery it could work but it would probably have to be heavily moderated and with from what I noticed with a few of you saying is Give the recovery a limit which is a decent idea like not let them recharge until they are empty then only let them recharge till half of their max each time they empty out.

But again I gotta say no just because longer fights shouldn't be easier for magic users just because they only use magic. You made your bed sleep in it.

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Post by ReinaKaitlynn on August 29th 2012, 4:58 pm

I can understand your reasoning behind it all, and that we get those breaks in MP, but maybe a clearer definition of exactly what the differential might be in a theoretical approval situation could be, might help people see the difference. Sometimes, since we don't see it, we can't accurately judge, and only get the part of the picture writ in stone.
Now, I also don't want the stats system reinstated, I was there for some of that hell, and I'm shamefully one of those that left because of it. I'm still in favor of the idea as a trial run, but etz's argument to me seems too sound, assuming I get an accurate comparison from him. Perhaps if vitality or stamina were more heavily moderated we might have the balance we seek, but that's just a thought.

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Post by Shirou on August 29th 2012, 5:24 pm

With your reply, Reina, you have essentially turned this topic from "I think we should have magic regen" to "Because we can't get magic regen, let's make things more complicated then they should be by gauging stamina." There already is a balance. There's no reason to attempt to fix a system that is not broken. Also, it seems that now, you're trying to tip the balance in your favor by handicapping the warriors.

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Post by Xet on August 29th 2012, 7:35 pm

I honestly am kinda borederline about this idea. If anything I would rather just introduce items and have Ether's restore magic
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Post by Yima on August 29th 2012, 7:51 pm

What else this sounds like is I don't trust other people to respect what I believe i am capable of doing and giving a person who already has a great deal of power more so they are completely irrefutable is no going to happen. What another person may or may not be able to do is not something someone else can be a best judge of and converting the site into a mmorphgr math system is not going to improve anything like in prior posts and as seen firsthand it will make the place die. Everyone is going to have their own way of fighting and you will tire eventually though as already pointed out mages often do much more than just magic so get that idea of a wrinkled old withered man or woman out of your mind. On of the most powerful mages to ever exist started the topic and he has massive strength, great evasion, forms that remove weaknesses, and if you want a example of what a mage can do go take a look at his approvals before you post in here again. ("you" being any reader and writer involved in this topic)

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Post by Balendin8 on August 29th 2012, 8:49 pm

Honestly I don't see any reason for it. I feel our current system is fairly balanced with any character based decisions having their advantages and disadvantages. I do not see why we need to implement a site mechanic that gives an extra advantage to a certain type of character build.

On the other hand, although I don't really support mana regeneration for all, I am of the opinion that it could be feasible as an option for a passive enchantment.

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Post by Jet Enduro on August 29th 2012, 10:51 pm

I dont really even see it as an enchantment passive or otherwise it would still be an advantage over others.

The idea of the Regen is nice because its "Ooo I get what I lost back." But the simple fact is that having a MP regen would not be fair for everyone only those who use MP the most and get the most benefit out of it since if its someone like me who doesnt have the best Magic uses up all theirs its not a big deal. However if someone like lenneth who uses up all their MP its going to be a HUGE strike on whomever gets hit with it and it would be rare for anyone to totally survive the whole thing so if you toss in Regen with that? No one would be able to survive a long medium sized fight Let alone a long fight. The longer things go it should get harder for both...not easier. Not only because of stamina but because there would be a real sense of loss with it you use up all your MP both are injured and both cant take much more thats how long fights usually end but if its with a regen One person has better magic there for they get the advantage over long term fighting so if they both are on their last legs there for the person with the magic gets the advantage.

In all honesty what sounded like an Idea to help out everyone pretty much turned in to a topic about why magic based people should get an advantage over other people. If you all remember there was already a topic on this people dont get advantages over other people everyone has to fight to get their own strength and complaining that one person is stronger than you while you do nothing isnt going to give you the advantage its just going to make everyone annoyed with you.

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Post by Lenneth on August 29th 2012, 11:26 pm

So it seems have really gotten past the subject of what I purpose really and truth be told it may be my fault in a sense of the use of bad examples but let me makes this clear. Not once did I try to imply that fact that mages were at a disadvantage or that they needed a buff. Truth be told the only reason I recall the power of mages would be in question was cause I was counter exampling someone else which turned out to this to which I apologize for the stress but really this was intended for EVERYONE not just mages.

How so you ask? Well think about it do even warriors have mana just for the sparking twilight effect in the sun light? That would be a no they also have use for it, forms summons weapon effects and SKILLS if you don’t like the term spell. What’s wrong with SKILLS that extend the range of your physical weapons, make your weapons fly, argument your strength, speed, defence etc, giving weapons different effects like extra damage etc. There are billons things anyone can do with the power to do unrealistic things, how mages only use mana/skill points point came to be is beyond me. We all have the ability to be creative in our own manner and to think other wises with mages potentially being overpowered is just plain silly. If you chose not to use mana well that’s your choice, it doesn’t mean you can’t its just you don’t want to, so its not unfair for us that do make the choice to. And not OP if we can make something value that you can in a different catorgorey equal in value

Now to my fellow mages and this is coming from me. YES I do know how hard it seems to catch to people and how weak you appear to be starting off with very limited mana with hardly the stuff to make the really effective stuff that you get later on. I’ve been there and then some; do you know how many times I’ve almost died? I lot but as a mage we should almost know as almost better then anyone else how to be versatile and I’m not just talking with different stats physical matters such as that but with are magic as well. Its not all about blowing people up with the strongest ultima then waiting to use it again but rather finding a good balance of sets of situations abilities or different times, de-buffs, long long range attacks, shields, different types of effects and really it doesn’t always costs a lot if you make it so. Example a large attack is coming your way what do you do? Need to overpower it with a stronger force? Make a giant defence to block it? Sure but it would also be plausible to say have a spell that drags you underground, one that summons a plant vine to swing yourself away and even abilities that argument your other stats just like everyone else, their known as forms, what happened to outside the box (which you also got to consider fair to others) and just plan overwhelming someone till you win? Plus you have to admit when you make your character you have a basic sense of what type of mage(Or anything really) you want to be and if you don’t you can change up your style,

Myself? I’m a glass cannon burst mage I deal a lot of damage in a large area and that’s how I wanted it, not at first mind you I wanted to be a jack like sora (came to the site right after I finished KH2), I even used strength to argument my damage potential but I knew that it came with consequence in my stamina, movement speed and defence be so slow its outranges, by the way my magic defence is included in my profile sucks as well so I take more damage from everything. But that’s how I grew out my guy, if you don’t know the type of spell caster you want you can training, rpg and even alter your character as time goes on. No person is exactly what they want to be starting out. So if a style you got now is not to your likely change it, hard work and keep trying does pay off in the end. Apt, change figure out the best way to survive on your own and do it, I did. We got more then just attack spells even as a mage and for your level that you start off at against people that equal start off with you in a similar regard.

And lastly doesn’t this all seem like a bitch fit for both parties to point out their best players can wipe out the lower end of their league? Really look up how many times etz and myself are brought up, how many times has it come up only one side gets a buff and the other was nurffed or underpower? are brought up and don’t we all see a pattern? Etz has this that, Lenny can do this and became that this etc etc. Are we all really so concerned what people that have worked just as hard as you can do at their END GAME? Really from both sides it seems to me that both parties are unhappy that about the things that can’t reach JUST YET. Mages being OP and get all the benefit from this, Warriors having just as much damage as us but for free with no rule lines on how to gauge them. Seems a little familiar to me. Everyone reaches that point of being consider too strong by someone at some point its all the same and it seems far away, however in the end we all become really strong in our respective fleids sooner then later and the out come of a battle? its really determinaed at that point by rpg skill, situational circumstantial and a little luck. I reached up to morph and Jet IC when they had like 2000 posts time ahead after me and that was before I became staff, Joe has caught up IC to me after I had two years off ITS POSSIBLE TO CATCH UP. Whatever one person has got, down the line anyone can have something of equal value if they work towards it as well, no one gets level 99 in the first few hours *unless they cheat, unfair* so just work hard, work with what you got and if it doesn’t work out? Hell push the continue button and try something else in your style.


And my verdict for the topic i started, i've changed to no considering now i know the equal regards to how we are treated

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Post by Etzolix on August 29th 2012, 11:49 pm

Very well put, Lenneth. It had truthfully gotten a bit too flame oriented however I did not wish to lock the topic because I don't want it to be viewed as, "They don't want us to speak against them" which is untrue because every member's opinion is held equally important.

However, I did take attack of my character personally so if I seemed aggressive it was not my intent considering every time I type I read what I write as indifference. That is just for clarification on how people should perceive my posts even if from time to time I word them inappropriately. Just letting people know that I wasn't attacking them personally and it is how I usually speak among friends, family and coworkers.

In regard to versatility in magic? Lenneth is completely correct in both aspects to warriors and mages. On the same note you can both still use your physical attributes as well. You just have to be clever if overwhelming isn't your particular style of choice.

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Post by Yima on August 30th 2012, 1:36 am

Stickied for being a topic that will undoubtedly be brought up again and because the conversation here although heated by passion for rping possibilities has many well thought out points that could be beneficial if used for reference.

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Post by Paleo Ansem on August 30th 2012, 8:00 am

Closing argument's or continuing arguments or replies will still be allowed for anyone who is still for this idea.


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Post by Kasturi on August 31st 2012, 11:07 am

After reading and rereading Etz.'s and other's arguments.
As I deem Etzolix having more experience than me, I shall respect that and take his word for it.
I've considered the possibility I might be wrong, that my theoretical banter might not prove valid within the practical scope of reality, so therefore I'll be happy with whatever is decided best by everyone.

Cheers.

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Post by Hikari on August 31st 2012, 2:54 pm

Also to add onto my explanation further, what's to say this would be just to recover MP lost? In total with the current concept, mages with a low MP count would be able to recover it unfairly. Rather all mages would. If they didn't use a single bit of MP they'd still slowly go upwards, meaning at this point they'd be able to use powerful spells that cost 250 MP! Lower mages or the regular ones would be unstoppable and just as powerful as everyone else! If they could avoid attacks until their MP got up nobody would be able to stop them, making the whole earning your mana thing pointless.

But I digress, this could be easily worked around. Just wanted to throw it out there.

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Post by Paleo Ansem on August 31st 2012, 2:56 pm

You'd only be able to go to you're max mp if this were instated cool wouldn't have to worry about that.

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Post by Adrian King on September 8th 2012, 8:41 pm

Alright,

My view:

Magic-based users should have 10 mp gained back every fifteen posts if they used more than 10.

10 mp gained for every 10 mp lost at a fifteen post point. That is quite a ways into the thread. This is meant for those long battles. Though this is for magic-based charries.

For non-magic-based charries, it would be 5 mp for every 10 mp instead. The limitations are the max mp the charrie has. Though it could be eighteen posts instead of fifteen. This stops it from being open to abusement a bit. We could just change the numbers to 5 for every 5 on a set amount of posts.

Regaining Mp should be after a long time for threads that are intended on being long. This helps for neck-to-neck battles as well.

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Post by Kenos on September 8th 2012, 10:42 pm

I don't think there should be MP regaining at at all, and definitely not greater MP gain for mages. Mages specialize in, well, magic, and giving them even more magic would be OP them a little too much...If you want to give mages an advantage, my suggestion is to just give mages a higher starting MP limit. Like, instead of 30 MP, have them start out with 40 or 50 MP.

It honestly doesn't matter to me. I'm just offering a suggestion.

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Post by Adrian King on September 8th 2012, 11:35 pm

Actually, Kenos, that is a great point.

They should have higher mp. But there would have to be non-magical drawbacks.

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Post by Etzolix on September 8th 2012, 11:40 pm

If you read the topic you know that their spells usually do more damage and can be more complex for the same amount of MP.

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Post by Kenos on September 8th 2012, 11:50 pm

Right, that's why I thought giving them a greater gaining of MP would be too much of an advantage. But in the beginning, they'd have less spells and less chances to use spells (depending on the cost of their spell). I don't know, maybe mages initially have more MP, but later have the same limits as everyone else? For instance, start them off at 40 or 50 MP, but they'd still have to reach 350 posts to get 60 MP.

I think that may overcomplicate it though...and there's the fact that mages can use weapons as well, although they may not be as proficient as non-mages.

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Post by Etzolix on September 9th 2012, 12:01 am

They may not be proficient but that would be their choice. They do not have to be incompetent and that is also a weakness that they can overcome and end up becoming a strength.

However, that was more directed towards Drakar who said they should have more MP which I took as a more in general opposed to only starting off with more.

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