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Rebooting the Site. (Needs ALL Members)

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Post by Leo on October 17th 2011, 8:28 am

The point of the post was to pretty much close out everything. That's the conclusion. There's nothing more that need be done save Zex thinking over what is going to be done now that he knows everyone's opinions.

I just see no further use in this topic, people are just getting angered and fighting and it's doing nothing besides driving a wedge between us all.

What happened to the days where this site was a carefree place where people just enjoyed hanging out with one another? Are those days just a faded memory? What happened when we just RPd because it was our hobby...now is it such a chore that it pains us to do so? Do you remember the countless times sitting on the tower in Twilight Town eating Sea Salt ice cream? Or laying out on the beaches of Destiny Island? Or the random boat cruises in Port Royal? Or the awesome parties in Club Zero? Those were the days...RPing was simple, carefree...fun.

It's not all about who can post the most epic post ever imagined...it's about all of us having fun and enjoying the site like we use to. Come on people...it's time to get back to the basics...it's time to stop being so uptight and simply be happy...

It's not the high post counts of some of us that scares off new members, it's the lack of freedom in the topics...when things were fun and relaxed , this place thrived. So what the staff were tail holes?...they're gone now...a new staff has been selected and we are the ones that have changed now. It's high time we get back to the basics mates...

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Post by Shirou on October 17th 2011, 2:36 pm

Leo, unless you have something to contribute to the topic at hand, other than trying to be a smart aleck and say it's over, do not post. You say that this topic is going off point, yet you continue to post posts that to diverge from the main point. If you want to go reminiscent about the old times, do it in a different topic. This topic is about talking about the future, not the past.

With that in mind, YOU do not decide when this topic is over. Why? Because not every member has posted in it and contributed their opinion. This topic is over when every member comes to an agreeable point, and when all ideas have been put out. This topic is considered over either once we've reached a conclusion, even if tentative, or Zexion has come to a conclusion himself.

Unless your next post it, "I think the best way for both sides to be happy is [insert your solution here]" or "I think we would both benefit if we did this...", I don't want to see anymore spam in this topic. Azumi and I solved our misunderstandings already outside of the topic. If you have any more problems, take it to the PMs with me.

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"Hey Shi get back here silly!" Etzolix said running naked and ended up in front of people. "...." "Awkward.."

[23:25:24] Zihark joined the chat on 10/17/2011, 11:25 pm
[23:27:16] Zihark : I SUSCEDE SHIROU VELOX, YOUR IDEA WAS BETTER

[02:13:16] Etzolix : YOU WON'T
[02:13:18] Etzolix : I GOT YIMA ON A LEASH

[1:41:03 AM] "Ansem": I only have
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Post by Leo on October 17th 2011, 3:12 pm

Shirou, watch your tongue when addressing me boy. You want some respect, SHOW SOME! Stop being a hypocritical mod and only fussing at me all of the time. Be a mod all of the time or none of the time. You've got a lot of growing left to do before you're ready to help Zex out with this place.


My post was stating that we need to get back in the mindset of being carefree once again, but you take from it what you wish. The whole point of my post was stating that we are too uptight and worried about status. If we could just adjust to the proper mindset and enjoy RPing once again, that would help with the site activity in my opinion.

I do not see a problem with revising the templates and possibly even making some new creation forms that would allow the users to create more things in order to better customize their characters. Just an idea.

Perhaps add in more forums in each world, give them more to do than what we currently have.

Also, we use to have site tournaments all the time. Let's try something like that. That's how me and Azumi started our friendship. We battled in the tournament and she epically dominated!

What about having more site wide parties like we use to? They might not have had a major point, but they were fun.

What we have to do is make this place fun. That's what the users are searching for, FUN damit...

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Post by ReinaKaitlynn on October 17th 2011, 3:49 pm

The problem, Leo, lies in the fact that because of so many additions made over the years, the system itself is flawed and really needs a cleaning. Whether that be a good thorough cleaning of the system to remove loopholes, outdated information, and making it more appealing and flowing together overall; Or to simply remove the entire thing and just replace it with an entirely new system. That's what we're really voting on, because again, I can see that everyone here agrees that the site needs to change.
Adding more, like your suggesting, will only serve to further the strain on the original system that is already losing coherence.

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Post by Leo on October 17th 2011, 3:52 pm

I can see where you are coming from Ray. That does make sense.

Like i said, I know we need some changes, but I'm just not sure what needs to be done in all honesty.

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Date Joined: September 3, 2007  https://kingdomhearts.forumotion.net/t6153-leo-s-post-count#55808

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Post by ReinaKaitlynn on October 17th 2011, 3:55 pm

No one is sure what is best right now, that's why this topic is here. I agree with Azumi in that everyone likes the point buy system, we can start there. If we all agree?

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Post by Leo on October 17th 2011, 3:56 pm

I'm all for the Point System. On a site that I'm staff on, we use that and it really helps out a lot. It's a start if everyone agrees.

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Date Joined: September 3, 2007  https://kingdomhearts.forumotion.net/t6153-leo-s-post-count#55808

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Post by Shirou on October 17th 2011, 3:59 pm

To which is why this topic is up. While yes, the primary goal of this topic is to decide whether a reboot is needed or not, there are other things that need to be discussed. One main thing would be for people to throw out what they don't like about the system and then also say what they would like to change. I posted that earlier in the first post, but Azumi said I didn't word it quite clearly enough, plus people have been focusing too much on the 'yes' and 'no' part of it. Even if the reboot doesn't happen, it would help us (as the staff) to know what changes you want done. I would like to hear from the new members just as much as the old members, too.


___________________
"Hey Shi get back here silly!" Etzolix said running naked and ended up in front of people. "...." "Awkward.."

[23:25:24] Zihark joined the chat on 10/17/2011, 11:25 pm
[23:27:16] Zihark : I SUSCEDE SHIROU VELOX, YOUR IDEA WAS BETTER

[02:13:16] Etzolix : YOU WON'T
[02:13:18] Etzolix : I GOT YIMA ON A LEASH

[1:41:03 AM] "Ansem": I only have
[1:41:09 AM] "Ansem": 500 munny
[1:41:20 AM] "Ansem": ....IMA WELFARE PIMP

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Post by ReinaKaitlynn on October 17th 2011, 4:29 pm

Well, honestly as much as the gummi ship system seemed cool, no one ever uses that aspect, so either improving it or removing the system altogether is one thing I suggest. Another is that the mages on this site are iffy, everyone gets the same MP and the same number of spells and weapons regardless of if they are or aren't a magic user. With a points buy system, it'll be easier to do that in a balanced way, but what exactly was the layout of the points buy system you had in mind? Someone please post describing it in full detail, both for me and for other people who want to contribute but aren't aware of the details of a points buy system, and what exactly we have planned here as far as alterations and what it would mean for the average person.
(I know about what it is, but the details in full detail are sketchy to me.)

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Post by Shirou on October 17th 2011, 4:52 pm

There is one tentative system that concerns what you're talking about.

(I realize people are going to groan at this)
Using a point system narrows the previous post system to just RPs. However, this still doesn't cover the point of gaining experience for when you fight and when you don't fight. Somebody could not fight yet still garner 1000 posts worth of RPing. That somebody, despite not doing anything that would realistically strengthen his/herself, would be quite strong.

Instead of using the point system, we'd use an dual system of currency. One currency determines how much money you have, while the other determines how much experience you have. You use the money to buy weapons, armor, and items. Whenever you 'level up', you'll be able to increase your stat points (which we'd still keep). Depending on which stats they are, they would increase how much MP you have, how much spells you can learn, how much summons, and et cetera. For example, if you have 42 Intelligence, you have learn ten spells and your MP is 100.

Now, back to the main point, how would you gain experience? Whenever you RP a battle between yourselves and a heartless, and you kill that heartless, you gain x munny and x experience. I realize that this makes it very easy to abuse, but it gives you guys more freedom. It's one topic of thirty posts that can give you ten experience one time and then one hundred experience another vs. every topic of thirty posts always having the same amount of experience gained. As for the abusive possibilities...well, the staff will monitor topics (like how it is now), or other members will report them.

Like I said, this is a tentative system. It's designed in a way where it gives members a lot more freedom over where their characters can grow. If you want to have your character to have ten weapons and be incredibly strong, without having ten spell slots you're never going to need, you can do it using this system.

___________________
"Hey Shi get back here silly!" Etzolix said running naked and ended up in front of people. "...." "Awkward.."

[23:25:24] Zihark joined the chat on 10/17/2011, 11:25 pm
[23:27:16] Zihark : I SUSCEDE SHIROU VELOX, YOUR IDEA WAS BETTER

[02:13:16] Etzolix : YOU WON'T
[02:13:18] Etzolix : I GOT YIMA ON A LEASH

[1:41:03 AM] "Ansem": I only have
[1:41:09 AM] "Ansem": 500 munny
[1:41:20 AM] "Ansem": ....IMA WELFARE PIMP

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Post by ReinaKaitlynn on October 17th 2011, 5:01 pm

Well it looks easy to access, but what are the stats you have planned? Because keeping the same stats we have now I don't think will work out too well, especially the already overly common dump-stat that is luck >_>
Another thing is the obvious abuse as stated, but maybe it could be resolved in a simple way. Perhaps only fighting bosses of worlds (As we discussed earlier), or other people can garner exp? This would promote RPing with other people and lock out all abuse of the system. Granted that forces players to fight each other to get stronger later on, but that can be fixed with regular site events or bosses that pop up in the storyline every so often, for those extreme few who PvE exclusively or people like me who aren't built for 1v1 combat.

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Post by Shirou on October 17th 2011, 5:07 pm

Obviously, the stats would be readjusted to function properly. The stats themselves would be designed where they would be all equal in value. There would be no 'luck' type stat.

As for that...wellll, it kind of stressful for members and staff members as well. People who want to get stronger, but don't want to risk losing to another member, would have to resort to a boss. Then, the staff would have to keep a consistent fighting with the bosses just to gain experience. Plus, the experience system wouldn't really have that much variety. There are member level experience and then boss level experience. Not to mention that members would constantly want to fight other members just for the experience.


___________________
"Hey Shi get back here silly!" Etzolix said running naked and ended up in front of people. "...." "Awkward.."

[23:25:24] Zihark joined the chat on 10/17/2011, 11:25 pm
[23:27:16] Zihark : I SUSCEDE SHIROU VELOX, YOUR IDEA WAS BETTER

[02:13:16] Etzolix : YOU WON'T
[02:13:18] Etzolix : I GOT YIMA ON A LEASH

[1:41:03 AM] "Ansem": I only have
[1:41:09 AM] "Ansem": 500 munny
[1:41:20 AM] "Ansem": ....IMA WELFARE PIMP

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Post by ReinaKaitlynn on October 17th 2011, 5:16 pm

Right but is that a bad thing? People wanting to fight each other in a combat based RP anyways? And I understand that kinda limits variety, but it keeps the abuse in check far more easily and with less whining in the long run about how many kills is too many. As for having to make bosses constantly, I can always help there. Bosses are predominantly world restricted, and then on top of bosses, there is also running errands for world leaders that might not necessarily be combat related for those who don't RP lots of combat or aren't strong.

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Post by Shirou on October 17th 2011, 5:18 pm

You would still gain experience from fighting members, significantly more than heartless. But still, what would that reduce the RPs to? A bunch of RPs of people just constantly RPing that don't actually progress storylines?

___________________
"Hey Shi get back here silly!" Etzolix said running naked and ended up in front of people. "...." "Awkward.."

[23:25:24] Zihark joined the chat on 10/17/2011, 11:25 pm
[23:27:16] Zihark : I SUSCEDE SHIROU VELOX, YOUR IDEA WAS BETTER

[02:13:16] Etzolix : YOU WON'T
[02:13:18] Etzolix : I GOT YIMA ON A LEASH

[1:41:03 AM] "Ansem": I only have
[1:41:09 AM] "Ansem": 500 munny
[1:41:20 AM] "Ansem": ....IMA WELFARE PIMP

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Post by ReinaKaitlynn on October 17th 2011, 5:22 pm

You underestimate people and their desire to write stories on an RP site. Trust me, with all the passive RPers here, and the writers (hi), and the people generally just interested in joining other random RPs, it will balance itself out to where half are combat grinding, and the other half are more peaceful and story driven.

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Post by Balendin8 on October 17th 2011, 6:33 pm

I imagine more peaceful members living in constant fear of attack if only bosses and member battles gave combat related experience. Combat grinders see that they can only get experience from those two sources so they decide to just jack every open topic they see and attack the members in it. Likely they would purposely target our peace loving members because that would greatly decrease the chance of them losing the fight or getting killed.

Or maybe the combat grinders will decide to not be jerks, but my somewhat cynical nature tends to make me believe otherwise.

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[22:33:21] Zihark : I didn't know lenny died?
[22:33:29] Zihark : how long did he stay after he died
[22:33:47] Etzolix : Uh idk.
[22:33:55] Etzolix : He let himself die cause he wanted to live.
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Post by ReinaKaitlynn on October 17th 2011, 6:36 pm

That's why they invented the closed topic.

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Post by Balendin8 on October 17th 2011, 6:48 pm

Your right, but that would really kind of suck having to use closed topics all the time. I know some people like them, but personally I do not at least not frequently. I like to start an open topic and then just see where it takes me. Then also people make their closed topics and you watch from the outside wishing you could join, but know that you can't.

Anyways, your right. You could do nothing but private topics. It might be annoying, but one does what they have to to survive.

Now onto a somewhat unrelated note. Why do people want to get rid of the chatbox? Personally I quite enjoy the chatbox and would not want to see it go away.

___________________
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Sovereign of Beast's Castle in Exile

Max Magic: 110
Elements: Earth, Cure, Fire
Theme Music: Soldiers of the Wasteland

[22:33:21] Zihark : I didn't know lenny died?
[22:33:29] Zihark : how long did he stay after he died
[22:33:47] Etzolix : Uh idk.
[22:33:55] Etzolix : He let himself die cause he wanted to live.
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Post by ReinaKaitlynn on October 17th 2011, 7:22 pm

The chatbox debate is that the box itself is removing some of that mystery that comes with RPing and makes almost all RPs completely OOC biased. I don't completely agree, but I don't disagree fully either as there is a little bias always, but I think people will still stay true enough to their character to make it a low issue. But that's just me.

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Post by Shirou on October 17th 2011, 8:43 pm

People tend to brag in the chatbox. I would personally like the chatbox to stay, since I like being able to talk to you guys. It's where some of these problems that arose in the topic got sorted out.

Anyways, there's such a thing as a 'no fighting' topic, where anybody can join as long as they don't fight.

___________________
"Hey Shi get back here silly!" Etzolix said running naked and ended up in front of people. "...." "Awkward.."

[23:25:24] Zihark joined the chat on 10/17/2011, 11:25 pm
[23:27:16] Zihark : I SUSCEDE SHIROU VELOX, YOUR IDEA WAS BETTER

[02:13:16] Etzolix : YOU WON'T
[02:13:18] Etzolix : I GOT YIMA ON A LEASH

[1:41:03 AM] "Ansem": I only have
[1:41:09 AM] "Ansem": 500 munny
[1:41:20 AM] "Ansem": ....IMA WELFARE PIMP

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Post by Renzenku on October 17th 2011, 9:37 pm

Hmm... I quite agree with Shi, a Dual-Point Compromised System seems quite effective.

As already stated though, it will be a massive amount of work to actually iron out what give how much munny, and how much experience. I, personally, suggest something akin to "One Member at 1-100 posts = x munny, and y experience". Etc. Etc.

I also agree with the rebooting all of the spells, forms, weapons, summons, etc, of all members. Not only do some members have spells that are much more powerful, in comparison to cost, for older members. But so are weapons, forms, summons, and enchantments. As a whole, it would better, in my opinion, if we do as Shi suggested and reboot character equips while retaining our histories and actual characters.

Assuming, of course, there's also an implimented "alternate reality" sort of thing, so IC we don't suddenly lose things. Like in the Weapon Dump.

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Post by The Cloaked One on October 17th 2011, 9:42 pm

Honestly, I'm prejudiced against that worthless pile of scrolling electrons because I find it that everyone is simply too friendly and familiar with one another to truly make meeting one another's characters all that interesting when you know exactly what the person behind them is like. You can try to stay true to your character, but with so many characters disjointedly making decisions in whatever ethical direction they feel like going at the time, no one really fits into either the Good or the Evil category, which then means no one ever has any genuine reason to find conflict with one another, and without conflict there can be no story. At least not a story worth telling, anyway. But, like I said, I'm simply prejudiced.

Concerning a point that was recently brought up concerning possibilities for abuse in a system where you can fight random NPC Heartless for XP and munny, the opponents in question would not be phantasms that can be killed on whatever whim comes their way. If the characters capacities become entirely stat-based and progressive, guess what'll happen to every Heartless and Nobody? They'll get defined stats and levels and abilities, as well. That way, a level 3 character wouldn't be able to leap into a legion of level 3 Soldiers and walk away without a scratch and pockets full of dinero. You would actually have to play it like an RPG game, where you can get outnumbered and even overpowered by random enemies and have to grind weaker ones before you can grind stronger ones, eventually leading up to bosses of the current world in question, and then inevitably to even stronger mobs in more advanced worlds. The leveling will be exponential, after all.

Also, just to address Renzenku's last point, there was never really an issue concerning Sora constantly losing all his Keyblades and spells and skills and summons and forms between games because the way he killed things was entirely trivial to the story. I don't see why we should treat it any differently when most of you will, probably, immediately find your niches and work to gain back your characters signature weapons and skills and traits right off the bat.
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Post by Zihark on October 17th 2011, 10:04 pm

Since (as far as I am aware), both munni and experience are gained the same way; may I suggest a universal "points system" that is used to "purchase" anything and everything.

That is all.

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Post by The Cloaked One on October 17th 2011, 10:20 pm

Different enemies would give different amounts of either, like they actually do in the games, and it makes more sense for there to be a separate system for money which would let you purchase items and pay others to work for you, which wouldn't make any sense with XP. Missions would pay out in munny, not XP. Bosses might only pay out XP. Random RPs not involving killing random Heartless wouldn't net munny, either, unless those RPs were missions unrelated to combat.

Essentially, one value only goes up, and one value can go up or down sporadically.
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Post by Azmot on October 17th 2011, 10:55 pm

If we have a munny system, then why do we need an XP system? There's no reson for levels if we have that kind of creativity. After all, the more munny you have, the stronger the weapon/Spells/Skills you can buy, therfore, why would one need XP. I suppose it could be a periodic thing were you reach the So-and So level and get So-and-So. That, in turn, is a MUCH better idea than doing it in posts, but why should it determine our power level? Personally, it would confuse me. Why don't we just, ya know, "Power-Up" our stats with upgrades from the shop, allowing us to choose our Tree. That way, even if Heartless have a defined EVERYTHING, we don't look the same, if not similar, to every character of the same level, with the stats and whatnot. All I'm saying is, people cannot be put into statistical categories, accurately, so why should our characters?
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