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Mages need some advantages Empty Mages need some advantages

Post by Zihark on December 26th 2010, 10:49 pm

People that have high magical attack and defence would most likely rely on magical attacks and defences. Now this makes it hard, due to the fact that a 'mage' would get the same magic as a 'warrior' or 'tank'. So this puts a 'mage' at a great disadvantage. I have come up with two different ways that would achieve that same goal, leveling the playing field for magic users.

First: Class System
I know it sounds like a hassle, but in retrospect, it isn't that much. A class system could be set up relatively easily, and old users could just go in and edit their character templates, if needed. It wouldn't be exstensive. A 'Class system' category would be added to some templates; Character, Partner Character, Spell & Skill, Enchantment, Form, and Summon. The reason for the new change would be to let mods know what class your in, and in turn, your item would require a lower MP cost, as you specialize in magic. So, in general, all that would be required is an extra category in the templates, and one thing extra for the mods to keep in mind while approving/disapproving.

Second: Mana Pool
Almost the same as the class system, change all the templates with the 'class system' category, but instead of giving 'mages' leniency with the MP cost, you make a different Mana pool chart, in which mages could achieve a higher MP total, and they would attain MP a little quicker than 'tanks' and 'warriors'. This would be a little harder to achieve in the beginning. Kind of like, raise the y-intercept, but lower the slope. A higher effort would be needed in the beginning, but over all the benefits change. Mods wouldn't have to take in the mage class system into account. This also requires more trust for the members not to push their class, like a 'tank' calling himself a 'mage' even though his defense growth is 9 and his magical attributes are 2 or 3.

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Post by Reina_W on December 27th 2010, 12:14 am

I would like to comment (And being a mage its not easy to make a comment without a little bias, but I'll try) that while I think it's unfair that mages have a small mana pool, one the exact same size as a warriors, it makes picking a mage feel a bit more superfluous. In game, like zee pointed out in the chatbox, people aren't going to react much differently to a massive spell from a mage, than from the same spell used by a warrior type of person. (And while I know there are no clearly defined jobs, the stats make it quite apparent what a person might choose)
On the other hand, the system in place already has a very finite balance as far as I can tell. Making jobs would require almost an overhaul because of all the spells and stuff already in place. I don't want to shoot down zee's ideas of a job type system, but there are issues with it that I think my personal idea, should you choose to accept it, may be a bit more flexible with.
My personal suggestion is that instead of having a set MP at start, everyone's start MP (And possibly leveling up MP) have varying values based on their stats. Like (As an example) every one point into magic attack gives you 5 more MP at start. It's by no means a perfect solution, but I do agree, mages feel alot weaker when we have the same MP as anyone else, even those who don't put anything into their magical prowess.
For leveling up you could do something like tacking on an extra 5 MP or something every certain amount of times it goes up based on the stats again, most likely of an inverse proportion. (Like for example, if you have a 2 in magic, then every 9 times you gain MP you get 5 extra or something, whereas if you have 9 MAG attack then you get it every 2 times you gain MP.)
Of course these are just examples. But those are my thoughts and ideas. I look forward to seeing your views on this as well, because mages do feel just a little underpowered at the moment. ^_^;

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Post by Etzolix on December 27th 2010, 12:17 am

I just wanna put in that two of the strongest characters in their "reign of power" were both mages.



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Post by Zihark on December 27th 2010, 12:22 am

You said yourself that Lenneth had magic and strength going for him. Which means that whatever he can conjure up with magic, he can blow up with his fists.

As for Zexion, with a post count of 12000, it's kind of hard to be at a disadvantage, no disrespect to Zexion, but most of his posts were recieved through approvals and rules.

I've RP'd pretty actively since my return, and in that 4 or 5 month period I've managed to rack up around 500-600 posts. For a mage to reach the level Zexion was on, it would take years, 3 at least. What are they supposed to do until then? And I believe Zexion dabbled in other arts where as someone like Reina, only has magic as an offensive.

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Post by Trent on December 27th 2010, 8:21 am

I always diliked class systems so on the opposing side here.

There's a point here for magic offense and defense, like attack and defense. Lets think 30mp spell here, from a spell oreinted character would be stronger and faster in attack and defense then a battle oreinted character and even though it could be the same attack (spells like fire and blizzard) the spell caster would come out on top. I know what you're saying though, there's only so much a magic oriented character can do but shouldn't they have reduced costs? For example a regular fire spell is usually 10, then for a person with a higher growth rate in magic should be 5? Plus a class system kind of defeats the purpose of the number system since its obvious that a tank would grow more in defense, a warrior would grow in attack power and etc. Thus leaving the number system to just be skimmed.

Also Lenny mostly used spells and other magic oreinted things he would barely physically fight and when he did it was usually to do with a form. Another thing about lenny was that he had strength because he was powerful too. Zexion was a pure spellcaster, i never saw him physically fight and even when he too was weak and didn't have the post count or well was working building it.


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Post by Etzolix on December 27th 2010, 12:40 pm

So that's what you meant when you edited your post. Well the quoted things are more of an optional read. Especially the second one and
what Moni said. Though he had long distance going for him too when the gun things were allowed but still he wouldn't have been as big a threat without the magic. No need to regurgitate what she said though since it'd be stupid to do that.

And a class system would really limit things. There a certain ways to classify people, Tanks, Warriors, Mages, Jack of all trades, Speedsters etc. but not everyone in those classes have the same stats.

Comparisons:
Zexion vs Lenny--Both were mage orientated but Zexion was an only magic kinda guy where Lenny took on some other stuff so he wasn't as magically inclined as Zex was where he always relied on it.
On another note Terradagger was a mage as well but he was focused on elemental magic.

Biscuits vs Celox--Both were speedster characters but whereas Biscuits had strength and lacked defense for both physical and magic Celox lacked strength and used momentum to build up power for her attacks.

Yima and Etzolix--We were both Jack of all Trades but due to things we made and the way we fought I was more offensive and he was more defensive. Even stat wise when we were messing around with Stats curves just to compare mine came out more offensive inclined and his was more defensive inclined.

Classes would just be more limiting in characters in general if you're defining classes like the way it seems to be. And even then what would qualify as a mage? Some people might have a slight affinity for magic while others have a drastic affinity for it. I don't see a clear cut way of regulating a balance without limiting things too much. Then there'd be the conflict "Well I'm a higher inclined mage than he is so shouldn't I get more magic benefits?"


Magic Attack: The higher it is the higher amount of damage you dish out when it comes to things that are magically related.
Magic Defense: The higher it is the more damage you can take when it comes to things that are magically related.

That's the best way I can describe what it stands for. And as you can see change magically to physically and you have the normal Attack and Defense stats so.
And I know that you've complained people don't acknowledge that but I don't see why it'd be just a big deal to tell them. And remember the stats are a curve.

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Post by Reina_W on December 27th 2010, 9:18 pm

I agree with etz that they don't need a power buff... but I think having the same MP pool seems a tad unfair... that's all.

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Post by Zihark on December 27th 2010, 9:43 pm

These are just suggestions, the main point is that mages have a clear disadvantage, even with the power boost, they would have limited attacks, whereas a warrior has unlimited attacks. The 'class system is bad' argument isn't important, it was just a way to fix the suggested issue. Like I said before the way it is fixed isn't as important as it getting fixed. It was my suggestion to fix the problem, there are other ways, like what Reina said.

Also going the route of the game, Donald had more MP than goofy or sora because he was a Mage, his attacks were stronger too. If you picked the rod in the beginning of the game you end up with more MP and higher magic attack. I know this site is a mix of fantasy and reality, but since magic is all fantasy and no reality, I believe we should stick to, or at least follow closely to the game schematics.

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Post by Etzolix on December 27th 2010, 9:52 pm

You're acting as if mages can't do physical attacks. In the game Donald wasn't able to (from what I saw) so they compensated for that. On the say they can do physical attacks.

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Post by Zihark on December 27th 2010, 10:40 pm

He could do physical attacks. That's why his staff had a strength stat, he was always the first to die as well, most likely due to using all of his magic and having resort to physical attacks and getting hit, and a low defense.

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Post by Etzolix on December 27th 2010, 10:53 pm

Well I never had a problem with anything you mentioned so I would know about that. Maybe you just sucked at the game :P

I've never really had that trouble though honestly, but if anything I would say that's because he was stuck in that mage class and didn't have anything supporting him. In the current system someone could have something supporting them and become just as strong as everyone else just in a different way.

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