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Post by Ikarus/Ren on July 24th 2014, 6:42 am

I know who the mini boss is going to be. The Yeti, that made Anna and them run. And the main bad guy would be the prince.

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Post by Shirou on July 24th 2014, 7:29 am

Accidentally posted as Meta, reposting on this accounting. This was said before Rens last post.

Just because there's a Disney movie, doesn't mean there's a KH counterpart, Ren. Just because something is possible in the KH universe doesn't mean it's canon.

Though, here's an idea. Why don't we allow the possibility of adding a non-KH world? The requirements would be something like, write a story of Sora and co. visiting the wanted world, meeting the people, finding the problem, beating the boss, and etc... Write it as if it took place in the game series, where it takes place in KH1 or KH2. Of course, multiple people can work on it, and it has to not only be believable, but interesting and of decent quality. Not something you can whip up in two hours. It also has to fit into the KH continuity, so Sora can't make out with Kairi.

When it's finished, then everybody reads it and debates whether or not it's good enough. And it should get, like, 66% of the votes rather than the majority vote. Idk, just riffing. Then the staff can come together and discuss it. Whether or not it should be the world or the characters. Whether or not it was good enough. And then if it pasts all tests, it's added.

It's a long and hard process, but I think that's what it should be. If people want to add a franchise that isn't in the game, they should have to work hard for it. And, of course, only Disney and SE worlds allowed.

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Post by Etzolix on July 24th 2014, 8:32 am

Even when canons were available, we only had about 3 taken, that showed up decently. And that's being generous.

Canons have hardly been used for years. Adding more worlds won't necessarily change that and allowing players to permanently claim them on top of renting won't necessarily change that.

Does this mean I oppose those ideas? No, I'm indifferent. I'm not going to roleplay as a canon, because I don't enjoy doing so. I also don't care what worlds we implement on site, as long as the power levels don't get too ridiculous (which, by my standards, they already are, but whatever).

Anyway, I'm just putting it out there that there's only so much you can do to make this feel like a 'KH' site. Opinions, perspective, blah, blah blah.
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Post by Takeshi on July 25th 2014, 8:42 pm

Honestly? I think that we will always reach the point of no longer being a KH site. It's not something that's due to the members themselves, but what their characters do that lend to the overall "feel" of being something outside of the realm of kingdom hearts. From my perspective...this has always been a sort of Alternate Timeline. Something that takes place in the Kingdom Hearts universe, but isn't restricted by the same rules. I..can't really explain my point on this fully, but I just wanted to throw that in on this. As for the topic at hand...Renting is good for the allowance of canon usage for the masses, though I do think that someone should be able to "Buy" a canon character slot, that allows them permanent usage of a single canon, it cannot be refunded, it cannot be transferred, and there can only be one purchase of that slot per member. And for Non-Canon "Canons"...Seriously, look at some of our OC's. We left the canon behind long ago. Why we're even attempting to stick with it is beyond me.

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Post by Etzolix on July 25th 2014, 8:46 pm

Rent-A-Canon should still be a thing.
Buy-A-Canon should be a thing, but we'll work out the kinks.

I don't see an issue with adding other Disney or FF franchises. After all, this is just a cross over site for those two anyway, so. It'd only make sense to be hesitant about Marvel and Star Wars, unless they're blatantly added in the games.

My largest issue is with Marvel, since they legitimately have gods and I don't mean Thor. I mean people and objects that can erase our existence. The Infinity Gauntlet is a good example.
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Post by Occam on July 25th 2014, 8:51 pm

Infinity Gauntlet in the future Marvel movies ftw

And Buy-A-Canon isn't too terrible, but since it is taking the chance of renting it away it would have to require some hard-earned munny.

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Post by Belysa on July 25th 2014, 9:02 pm

Milo wrote:Rent-A-Canon should still be a thing.
Buy-A-Canon should be a thing, but we'll work out the kinks.

I don't see an issue with adding other Disney or FF franchises. After all, this is just a cross over site for those two anyway, so. It'd only make sense to be hesitant about Marvel and Star Wars, unless they're blatantly added in the games.

My largest issue is with Marvel, since they legitimately have gods and I don't mean Thor. I mean people and objects that can erase our existence. The Infinity Gauntlet is a good example.

I share those feelings as well. I don't feel like people should be FORCED into making an OC to dilly about with it for all of eternity. I also don't believe that Star Wars or Marvel should be included in this mix, but it IS clear that characters from the Disney Afternoon Shows and that of Pixar have been HEAVILY considered (and some even implemented) in the games before, and shouldn't be ignored. (IE: Buzz and Woody, and the aforementioned Scrooge/Nephews). With that in mind, I don't personally believe it's going to do any damage to let sub-canons lose their world and end up in Traverse Town/Disney Town/Radiant Garden like LITERALLY EVERY DISNEY CHARACTER WITHOUT A WORLD HAS DONE IN THE PAST 3459076097 GAMES. There's no need to shove other Disney-related worlds into the mix because...you don't really need it. If a canon from outside the existing Disney-KH-verse pops up, have them end up on one of the neutral worlds.

Buy a canon sounds like an AMAZING idea. I would be willing to do something like that, but what worries me is what new people coming to this site and seeing that are going to react like. The reason why I'm pushing as hard as I am for canons is because there IS a larger influx of people who are seeking to play as canons around the RPing community, and I don't want to scare them off with something like tedious work.

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Post by Etzolix on July 25th 2014, 9:04 pm

Munny is outdated. We'll just do an approval for them, activity check every 3ish months, and hold them to the same standards of timelines and whatnot.

The account is also separate, so if they give up the character or it is revoked from them, it can be given to someone else, who has to respect the prior, canonized work.
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Post by Shirou on July 25th 2014, 9:07 pm

Perhaps Buy-a-Canon should be more like Rent-a-Canon?

The problem with some canons before is that they're taken/claimed, and then the person falls inactive and other people can't RP that canon. It's why I like Rent-a-Canon because it allows people to use a canon, any canon, whenever they want for whatever they want and then other people can use them when they're done.

So here's my idea: You can rent a canon character for an entire month. For that month, that canon character is exclusively yours. At the end of the month, you need to make a payment if you want to keep it. If you miss a payment, it's up for grabs again. You can make payments in advance, too. With this way, it kind of makes it so if you're active, you can keep the canon, since you have to post x amount of RP posts a month to be able to make payments. It can also be available to newer members this way to, as monthly payments would be considerably less than one, single payment.

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[23:27:16] Zihark : I SUSCEDE SHIROU VELOX, YOUR IDEA WAS BETTER

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Post by Belysa on July 25th 2014, 9:10 pm

Milo wrote:Munny is outdated. We'll just do an approval for them, activity check every 3ish months, and hold them to the same standards of timelines and whatnot.

The account is also separate, so if they give up the character or it is revoked from them, it can be given to someone else, who has to respect the prior, canonized work.

Many websites use an activity check in order to see if canons are active or not. I don't see why one of the staff members couldn't hold the same responsibility every month, and post a sort of check like that to see if people who have claimed canons are actually doing anything with them. If a person who has a canon hasn't done anything with them, or simply doesn't want them anymore, they can just post in the activity check and that canon will be open again.

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Post by Occam on July 25th 2014, 9:14 pm

I agree with Shirou simply because I don't like the idea of a permanent holding of a canon, and even if I don't entirely agree with the true rent-a-canon (Shirou's idea) it is better than permanently having the canon. This requires active roleplay and it would be quite easy for A LOT of members to not have that canon for more than a year, more than a few months even. This gives others a chance and the person doesn't have to keep the canon forever.

But Historia should still exist, meaning whatever is done must be considered when using the canon, thus if any development of the canon is allowed we must not stray too far from how Xe has developed.

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Post by Shirou on July 25th 2014, 9:15 pm

Why push the responsibility onto the staff? Should the person who wants the canon make an effort to actively prove that they're active? Just seems like to me that it's like saying, "I want this thing but you need to watch me play with it all the time." Not that it's particularly stressful or too hard for the staff, it just seems like a selfish solution.

Payments is just a way to encourage activity. Somebody can post up a topic once a month say, "Here are all of the topics I've RPed in."


Last edited by Shirou on July 25th 2014, 9:18 pm; edited 1 time in total

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"Hey Shi get back here silly!" Etzolix said running naked and ended up in front of people. "...." "Awkward.."

[23:25:24] Zihark joined the chat on 10/17/2011, 11:25 pm
[23:27:16] Zihark : I SUSCEDE SHIROU VELOX, YOUR IDEA WAS BETTER

[02:13:16] Etzolix : YOU WON'T
[02:13:18] Etzolix : I GOT YIMA ON A LEASH

[1:41:03 AM] "Ansem": I only have
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Post by Etzolix on July 25th 2014, 9:16 pm

I prefer general activity checks opposed to payments. The payment system seems like it would force people to try to meet the bare minimum and whatnot.

Kind of like why football/soccer doesn't publicly display the time, since there's a bunch of great actors in the sport.
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Post by Occam on July 25th 2014, 9:19 pm

The payments are made to ensure they don't hog the canon.

If not payments, then a clear display of activity? Also, maybe a maximum continuous time of rental? Something fair, like 3 months? If active, that time goes a LOOONG way.

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Post by Etzolix on July 25th 2014, 9:22 pm

In regards to your edit, wouldn't the payments just be the equivalent to them posting up a monthly timeline?

Or just them posting a topic, with a link to their timeline, with the topics separated based on month.

Eh, then again, a topic can span further. Anyway, even if they did that, someone would have to check to see if it's legitimate.
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Post by Shirou on July 25th 2014, 9:26 pm

With payments, you have a set post amount you need to be considered active and you can meet that with bare minimum effort. With an activity timeline, it's less of number crunching and more of just showing your actual activity. And yeah, somebody would have to check, but staff interaction is inevitable. I would just prefer that there is some push and pull from both sides, rather than the staff being solely responsible for checking.

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"Hey Shi get back here silly!" Etzolix said running naked and ended up in front of people. "...." "Awkward.."

[23:25:24] Zihark joined the chat on 10/17/2011, 11:25 pm
[23:27:16] Zihark : I SUSCEDE SHIROU VELOX, YOUR IDEA WAS BETTER

[02:13:16] Etzolix : YOU WON'T
[02:13:18] Etzolix : I GOT YIMA ON A LEASH

[1:41:03 AM] "Ansem": I only have
[1:41:09 AM] "Ansem": 500 munny
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Post by Occam on July 25th 2014, 9:34 pm

What if that member has used the canon for at least a month but someone was waiting to use it?

Should there be an agreement between the previous temp-owner and that person to use it?

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Post by Belysa on July 25th 2014, 9:35 pm

I'll throw some more "what ifs" into this to avoid any loopholes...

1:) What about the other sub-canons from the Final Fantasy series that don't appear in Kingdom Hearts? (IE: Lightning Farron, Kain Highwind, etc?) Is it possible to still play these canons if their histories and characters are written to the standards of the Kingdom Hearts Universe like the other Final Fantasy Canons?

2:) Marvel and Star Wars are obviously not going to be on the acceptable listings due to too many conflicts between their lore and ours...I'm going to assume this also goes the same for Studio Ghibli titles as well. (IE: Spirited Away/Howl's Moving Castle, etc.)

3:) We never gave a definitive answer on whether or not sub-canons from the Disney Universe would be allowed as Rentable. (IE: Tiana, Darkwing Duck, Robin Hood, etc.)

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Post by Occam on July 25th 2014, 9:46 pm

There is more than FF, like say Tomb Raider and Deus Ex. Oh, and Hitman. And BATMAN

But anyways, I think it would have to be within reason if allowed. But I do believe they shouldn't be direct rips. A character based on them, maybe. With a unique history that can be akin to their game but integrated. At that point, we can allow them to not count as the canons of KH, and thus allow things like Elsa since they aren't part of KH Lore, but that's my opinion. I also stress on possibility, not it being definitive.

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Post by Etzolix on July 25th 2014, 9:47 pm

Batman isn't owned by Disney, is it? This is only stuff applicable to them and Square.
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Post by Selene || Selena on July 25th 2014, 9:48 pm

I think it should be regular activity checks rather than munny payments. Reason being, the payments would require a set amount of posts to be made by the canon account. However, that may not always be possible due to inactivity of other members in topics, which not only hinders said topic but cannot be controlled by the canon. Which means in some situations, a canon not being able to make payments may not be their fault. And don't forget, each character is limited to 3 topics (?) at a time, which further limits the ability to reach a post minimum.

Also, canons should be checked for effort as well instead of just post count. 20 one-paragraph posts are much different from 20 well thought out, well developed posts.

What I would suggest that every month, the member using the canon posts (perhaps in the same topic they requested the canon) all the topics they've RP'd in in the past month. All the staff would have to do is click on each link and quickly browse the topics to confirm their activity and effort. And possibly, how in character they are. This post could also double as the Timeline/Historia for the canon in cases another member gets the chance to use it later on (but I think a short summary should be written for each topic).

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Post by Shirou on July 25th 2014, 9:48 pm

The community needs to decide on these, actually. We need to decide whether or not we want to keep the canon system the same, if we want to expand our canon to the Disney and Square Enix canon, and what is considered "Disney" canon, as well as "Square Enix" canon.

In my opinion, Marvel and Star Wars don't count because they're simply owned by Disney, they aren't Disney. And if Disney is smart, they'll stay like that.

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[23:25:24] Zihark joined the chat on 10/17/2011, 11:25 pm
[23:27:16] Zihark : I SUSCEDE SHIROU VELOX, YOUR IDEA WAS BETTER

[02:13:16] Etzolix : YOU WON'T
[02:13:18] Etzolix : I GOT YIMA ON A LEASH

[1:41:03 AM] "Ansem": I only have
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Post by Occam on July 25th 2014, 9:56 pm

Thor is a girl in the comics now. Just sayin' Disneyberg....

Also, I feel like the canon should be kept KH but, maybe make the extended parts be available to be treated like OC, meaning the character can be used but it has to be of this universe and a history that intergrates them as if they were OC. We must not forget face claims, so if we do extend the canon itself, people who like to use face claims might not be able to use the more popular ones like FF claims that don't exist in KH itself.

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Post by Etzolix on July 25th 2014, 9:59 pm

Yeah, I heard about that, but I doubt it's Disney. It's just shitty comic book writing like always, BUT I'm getting off topic.
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Post by Belysa on July 25th 2014, 10:14 pm

Thor didn't change into a woman, they simply gave the abilities to Thor to a female. The original lore states he does have a daughter, named Thorin (ik, ik, such original naming scheme here.) ...seriously though as a completely straight female...new Thor just as hot as the old Thor, ijs.

Aaaaaanyway, we should...probably put up a poll or something. I feel like Zeikke has the right idea with the specific sub-canons---they should be written up as if they were OC-Canons...if that makes a lick of sense.
I also feel like we should just stick to Final Fantasy Canons, even if that TWEWY bologna was slapped into 3D from literally out of nowhere. For some reason FF just blends into KH better than....other things.

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