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Chatting Mindlessly

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Chatting Mindlessly - Page 4 Empty Re: Chatting Mindlessly

Post by Siris of the Deathless on January 10th 2014, 1:11 am

There is, it's called human shields.
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Post by Lynette Elise on January 10th 2014, 1:15 am

Well, I'm not the sort to use people like that, so my other option is to be the rallying point for the Resistance. *shrug* Someone has to if this plot is going to be anything in the long run.

Seriously, the whole point of a villain is to ultimately be defeated with great effort on the part of a confederation of heroes. What use is there for a villain if no one is going to stand up to him?

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Post by Kuro on January 10th 2014, 1:17 am

He could just win

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Post by Lynette Elise on January 10th 2014, 1:19 am

That would be boring.

And would pretty well kill the site in a Meta sense.

It's one of the tradeoffs. Heroes can't do all the fun stuff, but they generally are plotted to win. Villains CAN have more fun, but they're plotted to ultimately lose.

Each side takes a peculiar skillset and mindset. It's just the way it is.

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Post by Kuro on January 10th 2014, 1:22 am

You said the words 'generally plotted'

As in that's the norm.

Normal is stupid

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Post by Siris of the Deathless on January 10th 2014, 1:26 am

I'm bored.
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Post by Lynette Elise on January 10th 2014, 1:26 am

In the case of plots, there's a *reason* why the "normal" ones are the most successful and the most popular. They speak most strongly to our souls as humans.

Ordinarily, I would agree with you that "normal" is boring, but in plots, it doesn't have to be and just because it breaks the "norm" doesn't mean that it's going to be satisfying or successful.

It's just the way it is. I've been writing long enough to know that with plots, things are the way they are for a reason. Plots can be played with, but there are ultimately only two. Tragedy and Comedy, in the classical sense. The protagonists succeed or the protagonists fail.

In the case of this site, if the "villains" win, the site loses.

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Post by Siris of the Deathless on January 10th 2014, 1:28 am

Defeat apocolapse. Got it. Goal number two made.
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Post by Sir Nicholas on January 10th 2014, 1:31 am

I agree Elise. As a published writer myself, I know what people like and what they don't. Just because something is different doesn't mean it's necessarily better.

It is the same with truth: If you seek absolute truth, you won't find it. You will find only truth that appeals to you.

And besides, I think I'm beginning to like this current plot. I think Jameson might finally be getting the chance to show himself as the Big Good.
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Post by Tatane on January 10th 2014, 1:33 am

On a slight sidenote, I don't think my signature is appearing. Are there specific requirements I have to meet, or...

EDIT: Oh no, there it is!

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Post by Onyx on January 10th 2014, 1:35 am

Lynette Elise wrote:In the case of plots, there's a *reason* why the "normal" ones are the most successful and the most popular.  They speak most strongly to our souls as humans.

Ordinarily, I would agree with you that "normal" is boring, but in plots, it doesn't have to be and just because it breaks the "norm" doesn't mean that it's going to be satisfying or successful.

It's just the way it is.  I've been writing long enough to know that with plots, things are the way they are for a reason.  Plots can be played with, but there are ultimately only two.  Tragedy and Comedy, in the classical sense.  The protagonists succeed or the protagonists fail.

In the case of this site, if the "villains" win, the site loses.


It's a bit arrogant to say that the site loses, because that creates the assumption that the site is ultimately good in its nature, which it is not. The site is directed by the characters and the fate of the site is decided by the community. It is neither innately good or innately evil. It is what the characters wish it is. It also implies, falsely, that the site will end if one side wins. As it states in many stories and history books, one side never wins permanently. There is always a rebellion. A return. An uprising. It maybe not always happen right away, but it will, eventually.


Edit: Sweet signature picture

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Post by Lynette Elise on January 10th 2014, 1:37 am

I'm glad for you, Sir Nicholas. I'm very glad that you're having the chance to show your character the way you always intended him.

I find that it's somewhat the same way with me. I am so glad that I'm able to show Lynette as the Firebird to the full extent of her mythical prowess, as a Good power of beauty and magnificence.

It's why I'm taking the path that I am with her, offering her as the banner to rally the Resistance. It makes sense for her character in the long term. This is what she is.

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Post by Neptune. on January 10th 2014, 1:38 am

The Protagonists aren't always the heroes.

And, the 'evil' side has won on site before.

Just some things to throw out there.
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Post by Mana on January 10th 2014, 1:42 am

What constitutes as a "normal" plot, exactly? Plots that resonate most with users isn't its averageness, but how it connects with the user. It's about symbolism, a common and popular literary device used in many (if not all) stories that helps us find deeper meanings with certain texts.

Semantics vs. content.


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Post by Lynette Elise on January 10th 2014, 1:46 am

Admittedly, the Protagonists aren't always the heroes.

However, in the cases where they are not, the Tragic ending is very nearly *required* by the common moral standpoint. If they break the accepted moral code, in Onyx's case by destroying whole worlds and slaughtering untold millions in the process, then they must fail. They must be destroyed.

It's Storytelling 101.

There's actually a whole conversation to this effect at the start of the movie "Swordfish"...

Now, if his worldview ALLOWED such? Onyx could "win" by *appearing* to lose and be beaten back only to rise again if he felt the need for him had risen again. But I highly doubt that his outlook allows for such creative interpretation.

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Post by Siris of the Deathless on January 10th 2014, 1:46 am

My sword lies to the ruler of the country I serve.
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Post by Sir Nicholas on January 10th 2014, 1:47 am

I think maybe that it should be remembered, we're here for fun, not to argue about which side is inherently good or evil, protagonist or antagonist. I said my char is the "Big Good" because he's rapidly becoming a leader figure among those that seek to preserve the status quo. I imagine he'll be the one to lead the charge when the war comes around.
 
Elise is the face of the resistance; the 'heart' if you will, of its fighting spirit. Then there's Jeremi, who I suspect will be the Smart Guy. The strategist.
 
And of course, there's all the help: The friends and allies.
 
What we need I think is a clear scope of who is the lead of the opposing forces. I'd gladly encourage a worthy opponent - somebody to play the role of Big Bad.
 
It takes two sides to make a war, and war is good for activity.
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Post by Siris of the Deathless on January 10th 2014, 1:49 am

True, you post Nick.
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Post by Lynette Elise on January 10th 2014, 1:51 am

Very true, Sir Nicholas. Very true indeed.

At the moment, the "Big Bad" seems to be Onyx. I have no doubt whatsoever that there will be others when he has been defeated, or set back, or whatever.

But yes, in this case, war is good for activity.

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Post by Lynette Elise on January 10th 2014, 1:56 am

Well, specifically, Conflict is good for activity, so long as the opposing sides are somewhat balanced. It's when that balance is lost that things become twitchy.

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Post by Siris of the Deathless on January 10th 2014, 1:59 am

Well war would make Siris fell at home makeing his stay here longer, increasing his story line.
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Post by Tatane on January 10th 2014, 2:02 am

Quoted directly from the Vice President of the Daily Days, Baccano - Episode 16:

"Rid yourself of the illusion that stories have beginnings and endings. Stories have no beginnings, nor do they have endings. All they have are the facts of life of people making connections, interacting, influencing each other, and spreading out. Stories must not have endings."

And later on, when asked about WHY stories cannot have an ending: "You could probably provide countless answers to that question. But suppose I were to give you an answer that was easy to understand, for your sake... Because they are enjoyable.

Visualize it. Imagine. And there you have it."

While it is important to have good foundations for writing stories and making believable, impactful characters and plotlines, we should not enrapture ourselves with the idea of simply writing a roleplay for the ending, but rather for the fun of imagining the potential experiences a character can have all the way up to the potential end.

We should keep a reminder that eventually, the large superiors must eventually fall one way or another, and that not everyone will have a happy ending. But we are roleplayers, not writers crunching to get the last 10 pages to meet a deadline.

We are here to have fun, and let's have fun with what we write. That's what I believe.

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Post by Tatane on January 10th 2014, 2:03 am

Oh, it looks like you guys passed over that topic. Sorry for posting a needlessly long post.

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Post by Neptune. on January 10th 2014, 2:04 am

Opinions are always welcomed, Tatane.
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Post by Onyx on January 10th 2014, 2:04 am

And that was an awesome opinion

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