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Post by Etzolix on January 5th 2014, 10:19 am

https://kingdomhearts.forumotion.net/t10706p20-update

The issue brought up is, if you have 3 hearts, can you wield 3 Keyblades? According to lore, yes. The only condition is that the heart's have to be worthy.

Here's an example.

Rorschach, a character who doesn't have a Keyblade worthy heart, dies and Yima, who is a wielder of two hearts that are Keyblade worthy, takes Rorschach's heart. Yima can still only wield 2 Keyblades.

Shirou, a character who has a Keyblade worthy heart, dies and Yima, who is a wielder of two, Keyblade worthy, hearts, take Shirou's heart. Yima can now wield 3 Keyblades.

I do believe that, overtime, you can make a non-worthy heart worthy. It's been shown in the games, after all, no one is inherently worthy of one.

This is just here as member discussion, since staff is reviewing it. Personally, if we follow lore, there shouldn't really need to be a discussion had. If there is anything in the lore that contradicts this, feel free to bring it up. I'm not well versed in it.


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Post by Paul:) on January 5th 2014, 10:27 am

Oh I was wondering why everyone had like three or four hearts.... I was like O.o umm now people can stab you from three different angles and kill you? Lol but That makes since anyways. So like if I kill somebody evil... and have their heart for a long time and turn it good does that mean I get three keyblades? I didn't quite catch the clear answer on that I was aware that somebody evil with their own heart could turn good and get a keyblade, but i did not know an a good character who took an evil characters heart could turn it good because it wasn't the original evil person becoming good it was an already good character. 

I hope I'm making since. ._.
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Post by Etzolix on January 5th 2014, 10:44 am

They are metaphysical hearts, not the organ. The hearts that float in the sky when heartless die aren't the actual organs connected to our arteries.

You make sense, don't worry. Just because it wasn't your heart originally doesn't mean, it isn't now. You take their heart and, through effort, you can make it worthy.

Do I think all hearts should be made to be able to wield a Keyblade? No, I think that defeats the purpose. Should some? Yeah, that's part of the story, even if I'm against characters having Keyblades.

Also, to my knowledge, you don't have to be 'Good' to be worthy of a Keyblade.

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Post by Adrian King on January 5th 2014, 10:46 am

You don't have to be good to have a keyblade.

I.e. Xehanort. Obtaining hearts should take time and effort, and hence reward us BUT a DtH should be used to earn the ability to use a keyblade per heart.

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Post by Paul:) on January 5th 2014, 11:05 am

Thanks guys I was just wondering. 

And I earned mine through a DTH Drakar. Also I don't think I want more than two keyblades because I already have a floating shield and I duel wield, but just one question. If I never took a heart for my second keyblade does this take away my second keyblade? And yeah sorry about that i know evil characters can wield keyblades I just meant an unworthy evil character.Cause i was thinking about Ansem and forgot that the reason he couldn't wield one was because he was a heartless
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Post by Adrian King on January 5th 2014, 11:07 am

I have a whole story for my second heart and I earned my first heart.

When I get the chance I was going to write up what actually happened to Umar's heart and why it was given a keyblade. Anyways,

I think all hearts should affect the person until he makes it their own.

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Post by Onyx on January 5th 2014, 11:10 am

Personally I believe Dive to Hearts should be brought back, but that's just me.

You have to be worthy of a key blade as stated already while it's true you don't gave to be inherently 'good' you do need to be worthy. You need to have something happen in your life that made a key blade call out to you.

I also agree with not all hearts should be able to wield keyblades, those are suppose to rarity in the universe not everyone having one.


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Post by Etzolix on January 5th 2014, 11:10 am

@Joseph // Yes, it would take away your second Keyblade.


@Drakar Why draw unnecessary lines? Having a convoluted system of randomly drawn lines clearly didn't help the old version of the site.

Do I think it should take effort? Yes, I think all things should take effort on site when you're achieving something.

That is a stigma that needs to be passed around.

Having a 'system' for it that's as subjective as a Dive to Heart would be without a word count to auto-approved would inherently be biased and detrimental to the whole freedom aspect we're supposed to have.

If we put back Dive to Hearts, why not just make death permanent? Or make it so you have to have a Rise to Life topic that follows the same format? It's just stigma of the old site, really.

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Post by Etzolix on January 5th 2014, 11:12 am

I can't believe I have to defend Keyblades despite me not even believing a majority of people who have them should. It's, kind of, ironic.

Anyway, I'm not gonna reply too much because I want other people's opinions to go through, as well. So, yeah. Get everything out guys and then leave it be so people don't have to read multiple pages of back and forth. Courtesy and all that jazz.

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Post by Adrian King on January 5th 2014, 11:14 am

I think someone who already has a keyblade can obtain more keyblades more so than anyone just obtaining a keyblade. It may not sound fair but it makes sense to me.

Also, DtH provide story and effort. It isn't blind like combat and it provides development for the character, isn't that what this system is for? DtH maybe shouldn't need to be approved but should be present. LORE has shown it as what has affected the heart when it comes to light, darkness and keyblades. It is a peek into your own heart imo.

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Post by Paul:) on January 5th 2014, 11:17 am

I completely agree about the DTHs returning because it used to be an honor gaining a keyblade, and lately everyones just getting one for nothing which isn't exactly fair. Also Rorschach is right people should die, because theirs no since in letting the underworld just hang open if that was the case every soul would leave at once causing an uprift in the universe. Just imagine all the extremely terrible villians that live in the underworld that would just walk out if they had the chance in the real game.
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Post by Paul:) on January 5th 2014, 11:19 am

and Drakar maybe people should only get hearts from dead characters that says so IC like if Yima died and personally wanted to give Rors his heart. I would think if you wanted your extras keyblade on your main you would need to do an entire new DTH just to say he had one then do another topic where he hands it over.
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Post by Etzolix on January 5th 2014, 11:23 am

You'd need to support that theory with lore, Drakar. To my knowledge, you get 1 Keyblade per heart. Also, I'm against Dive to Hearts as a system, not a story aspect.

Joseph, my point is that I don't think we should have a system for it. We should have effort and respect.

Personally, if my characters die, they're going to stay dead. I'm doing that because I respect their story's and value as a character, however, I don't want a system to enforce that. There can be a great play on death and revival as a character concept.

If I did want to bring them back though, I'd put effort in. It should be circumstance and effort to bring character's back to life, after all, you're right. Not everyone just walks in and out of death's door willy nilly and my personal preference is to have circumstance play a role not, "LOOK, I'M SO POWERFUL I CAN DO THIS ALL THE TIME. HAHHAHA WHAT IS DEATH EVEN :D"

Although, I don't support any of these ideas as a system, just as stigmas on site that are frowned upon when done poorly.

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Post by Onyx on January 5th 2014, 11:24 am

I don't want the 3000 word count, I wish to just see effort for the key blade.

Not, 'I gots a keyblade'

The death topic is  actually close to one in the same with this due to the fact people can just rise to life or be healed in that same topic or say they were brought back off topic by healing mages.

Same thing as for hostile takeovers if effort is shown then they should be given it.

While yes people could argue that there having there freedom taken doing a dive to heart, I truly don't see it that way if all there being asked to do is show simple effort for the keyblade.


Death as I said isn't too far off of a topic and honestly I believe a character that dies and comes back should show effort coming back as well not just

'Sup guys I got my head blasted off but now I'm back'

What's the point over crying about npc's who were destroyed in worlds if they could inherently do the same then?

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Post by Paul:) on January 5th 2014, 11:36 am

I understand how you feel about not bringing back the old systems ways because your one of the main people who updated and put your ideas into this new one. But all I'm saying is I don't think the idea of a bunch of players getting keyblades automatically because keyblades are 'SUPPOSED" to be rare. and at this point in time the stories making it out to be like their becoming, more, and more common to the universe and people on the site are so devoted to PvP rather than actually hunting down heartless that it seems almost dumb for someone to have a keyblade. I'll be honest I like fighting characters better than my own mind because I like the challenges, but I have been trying to do topics where I actually go story wise against heartless so It would make since. I really think the DTHs should be brought back so we can make sure that person actually put up the work to get one.


The Rise to life idea is probably a good idea too a 3000 word topic where you talk about your walk through the underworld the tasks as well as challenges you took to get out and why or why not you think you have a job to do for coming back to life, and then when they get out they should still have most of theirs wounds from the battle without the exception of getting your head blown off to show they still need the healing or whatever.
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Post by Adrian King on January 5th 2014, 1:00 pm

Actually it isn't so much a theory, or rather a supported one.

Ventus entered a DtH-esque area when he fought Vanitas, that had more to do with the light vs. darkness in his heart (although it was on an intense degree).

And I don't need to show examples for why it accounts for keyblades. Everything needs effort, though I would have to see it gets hard the less the patience from other people to progress further. (I.e. the World events currently happening demanding attention)

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Post by Lynette Elise on January 5th 2014, 1:13 pm

Keyblades are like lightsabers. Everyone wants them. It's the nature of the beast.

Look, if a given player wants to go to the effort of writing up a Dive to Heart because of their story and it FITS how they want to develop, more power to them.

Of my characters? Lynette has a Keyblade and Valerie doesn't. This isn't really because one is "better" than the other... but there was a background scene when Lynette was still being created where Jeremi's character (yeah, it's complicated) made mention that with how her Heart led her by the nose so much, she'd make a good Keyblade wielder.

And Lyn still hasn't learned how to use her Keyblade yet.

So it's really a personal decision on the part of the player if they want to take full advantage of the story aspects of the process.

As for Keyblades being rare... let's look at it like this. How many NPCs are we assuming exist in each world at any given time? The player base would be a tiny *fraction* of all living beings. We could ALL be wielding Keyblades and they'd still be rare within the larger environment of the worlds of Kingdom Hearts.

Just adding my two cents and change.

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Post by Sir Nicholas on January 5th 2014, 1:40 pm

I don't use Keyblades. I personally think that since the revealing of the Keyblade War, (or perhaps before even that) there's been way too many of them. Which is why I enjoy using more conventional weapons. However, if I may offer my own theory:

A Keyblade is the reflection of someone's heart. It starts out in the "Base Form" of the Kingdom Key. It then grows to mirror its master's heart, desires, thoughts and feelings - and so it evolves into something different through use of keychains. And so it, like its wielder grows stronger with the passage of time.

Two people can wield the same blades, but only if they are closely intertwined through destiny, or by the Keyblade Transferrence.

Personally, since this decision does not affect me in any way - I rather think that if someone wants a Keyblade, by all means, but you have to earn it.

Though my primary weapon is a sword (Decem Mandata) - I've decided I want to try other weapons in the future. And I encourage others to do the same. A blade is a powerful weapon, don't get me wrong, but it pales in comparison to the mace or the polearm when against armor.

Which brings me to my next point. I wear armor not just because it looks cool - but also for practical reasons: Even tempered blades will simply bounce off it. Steel cannot cut through steel.

But with Keyblades, they are magically edged weapons - so it seems armor has little defense against them. Which is why my armor is enchanted to resist such attacks.

There has to be balance, otherwise we'll all be running around wielding Infinity Plus One weapons.
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Post by Pōn on January 5th 2014, 2:05 pm

People shouldn't have to work to wield keyblades.

In this system and in the old one keyblades never really were better than other weapons. People could summon their blades and considering how certain armors are made out of orichalcum I assume weapons could be made out of it too. The only special quality keyblades had in comparison to other weapons was its function as a skeleton key. It's able to work its magic against keyholes, which most of us don't know the location of, and can effectively create a lockdown on a world that prevents any sort of travel in or out of it without the use of portals. I'd assume you'd need staff permission for this kind of thing though and it is again voided by the fact that few characters know where they're located, if any at all.

The only function that keyblades hold that other weapons and items can't have is that ability to affect keyholes. Even then my other points come into play when we talk about that. Keyblades shouldn't have to be obtained. A point in the character's own plot like a dive would be fine but it shouldn't actually have to be working for it like you would work in an HT. People should also be able to still come onto the site with their keyblade earned prior because that point in their character's story had been fulfilled prior to the events that take place on the site. Keyblades aren't some ultra-powerful weapon and whether a character can wield one or not is the person who created the character's business.

Besides, people on the site now have the ability to transverse the Realm of Sleep with ease and reduce entire worlds to wastelands with time and effort.

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Post by Adrian King on January 5th 2014, 2:14 pm

I would suggest looking at Birth by Sleep gameplay, lore, and what was recently revealed for KH3. Keyblades can transform and the wielder may shape them into weapons such as big cannons or, in Sora's case, a pair of crossbow-like guns. Keyblades are much more powerful than we know, apparently (based on this information).

Also they have background abilities, apparently. They seem to do things that adapt to the situation, like Sora chopping buildings. Yima pointed that out, too. Also, LORE shows us that it takes effort to obtain a keyblade. Even Lea from Birth by Sleep/Dream Drop Distance isn't even an adept and has to work to earn the ability. Also, since Keyblades are connected to the heart, DtH have been shown in the games to provide significance. Even if they aren't too powerful as they seem, LORE still makes them significant and this is Kingdom Hearts RPG, some things can't be denied in the lore.

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Post by Lynette Elise on January 5th 2014, 2:22 pm

True, but artificial systems aren't going to make the storytelling aspect of that any stronger.

It's a choice by the player.

I, for one, welcome the chance to play out all the possible RP ramifications for the fact that my character has a Keyblade. It gives me more stuff to *do*, and I love that.

At this point, I don't really see any need for Lyn to HAVE multiple weapons, much less multiple Keyblades. And, as a matter of detail, her unborn daughter? Has a Keyblade-worthy heart but it'd be a neat damn trick getting her to even PICK UP a weapon, much less use one.

Hell, the best weapon I ever designed wasn't even a freakin' Keyblade, it was a Wok.

I think we can treat Keyblades a bit like we treat all high-level powers. We can have them... but we HIGHLY suggest using them with care. Does that work?

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Post by Pōn on January 5th 2014, 2:31 pm

So? People can make weapons that can change into other weapons too. Most of the qualities of keyblades can be obtained by other weapons and items like I mentioned before. As for the skyscraper, I personally don't remember Sora ever chopping up a skyscraper. I'm not saying he didn't but I'd prefer a video for reference since I only remember him running down one.

As for your point on working for them, the working shouldn't have to have an intense amount of effort put it into it like a hostile takeover. Even if keyblades could adapt I assume that chopping up skyscrapers would leave a ton of fatigue on the person who had done it. There shouldn't have to be massive work put into getting a reward that has nearly all of its qualities available for other weapons, items, and abilities which only require you to merely update your character sheet. It'd be nice to see massive effort put into a DTH but it shouldn't be required. At the very least it should be FAR under the effort required to take over an entire world.

Also, I personally agree with Lyn's proposal. Keyblades should be used with care.
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Post by Etzolix on January 5th 2014, 2:33 pm

Those types of weapons should also take effort to get. You say it's an update of a character sheet, and it is, however, it shouldn't be. You should actually work for things in general.

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Post by Pōn on January 5th 2014, 2:38 pm

Rorschach wrote:Those types of weapons should also take effort to get. You say it's an update of a character sheet, and it is, however, it shouldn't be. You should actually work for things in general.

Agreed. I'm just trying to say that you could basically get non-keyblade weapons with most of the abilities of keyblades for much less effort than keyblades.
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Post by Mana on January 5th 2014, 2:40 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Oxeq65QZAGQ&list=TLbUlwwJEaiqrp0DVBfJ6EEcVpjXkmRLdI#t=109

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